63 Futura 'Vert, It Begins With Many Questions

[Jeff W]

When I did my convertible it was just that, I fancy shouldered bolt, more fancy washer and a new bush.

[Luva65wagon]

Matt,

When you get those bolts out, if you need to replace them and can't find them already made - I have little doubt I could machine you up a pair. I don't think they're hardened since they don't need to be, but if they are, I'll machine them out of something I can harden. So, putting that out there so you can relax a bit on that.

[MacDee]

I am eagerly awaiting news from Matt Cox of Vintage Inlines about when i can purchase the new aluminum inline head which should start production any day now.

You can find a couple of strings on this forum regarding the problems I and/or Roger had with "Freddie". Freddie had the Classic Inlines aluminum head and manifold.
For the record, crazy as this sounds, I now TRULY believe Freddie's root problem was air "leaching" through the walls of the intake manifold. If you get this setup, SEAL the intake manifold surfaces with either paint, a lot, on the outside, and/or Por-15 gas tank sealant on the inside of the manifold.

Good luck!

[Millennial Falcon]

Thanks Roger, i really appreciate the offer!

I feel like i should address the rear end while im at it. Yes i know, scope creep.

My issue is the grooves in the backing plate. I cant find info on what the dimensions should be for those pads, and they cant be weld fixed in place. I tried to smooth them out but am now concerned i may have changed height and angled the surface slightly with my 'fix'. This seems like a lot of work to go through for a rear end that may be very worn out anyway.

Ive heard rumors of a Maverick 8in 4-lug rear end that exists, should i start hunting for one of those? Ive also heard rumors that parts for my current rear end are impossible to get. On top of that, if i switch from auto to T5 i would want to switch to the 2.79 gearing right?

I need your mentorship Roger, what would you do?

[Luva65wagon]

Matt,

There is very little available for the 7 1/4" Falcon rear-end on parts shelves. There are a lot of them out there because they get swapped out a lot, but age and wear would be possible with them as well.

We've (almost) all done a Maverick rear-end swap, I think. Way more parts and pieces available for it than the Falcon rear-end. They're out there and most will be 2.79 open gears when you find them. Whether that's what you'll want to keep is iffy. Even with my 5 speed and a V8 I appreciate the slightly lower rear gear. Way more pep and go. Mid 3's (I have 3.45 and like them). 2.79's were when there wasn't many cars with overdrive and they also wanted maximum freeway speed versus engine RPM for fuel economy. The 5-speed offers the overdrive. So, based upon your goal, I think this is the direction to go. You can always swap the 3rd member later if you can find a rear end still. If you stick with a C4, 2.79 would be a good choice, but it'll still be a slug around town.

[Millennial Falcon]

When I did my convertible it was just that, I fancy shouldered bolt, more fancy washer and a new bush.

So Jeff, do you think i could get away with buying the standard shackle and having Roger work his magic?
I guess im asking what exactly needed modification, what parts should i start with and then modify?


As for the rest of the project, the more i look into it i think i will go with Eaton springs despite the cost. i would rather get the spring rate correct so that the shocks match and this all turns out like i expect. Any deviation from stock seems to bring unintended consequences that i wont enjoy much, and would require a more well thought out plan for specific performance gains.

That thought goes out the window of course with the Street or Track front suspension because i am telling myself that the kit will eliminate the re-engineering and decision making on my part. Stay tuned i suppose, it should be good for a laugh if anything!

[Millennial Falcon]

What is the narrowest you can build the 8 inch? Im trying to get an idea of how much clearance i can gain for the rear wheels.

I could also use some recommendations for who to take the rear end to for this. I've noticed that 4-lug axles for the 8 inch don't seem to be available, so i imagine shortening up the rear end will not be easy or cheap. If anyone has experience with this project please let me know how things went.

I am in the market for a 4-lug 8 inch rear end in case anyone spots one!

[Jeff W]

Hi Matt, sadly it was 10 years ago and I don’t remember what the bolt looked like. I was able to purchase it from one of the normal Falcon suppliers.
I found my 4-lug 8” rear at Pick-n-pull in Lynnwood. I think it is 3/4” wider than the little stock guy but people have had luck installing as is. I need to get it clean and painted for installation later this summer. I plan on swapping the backing plates from my wagon as they allow wider shoes. It is the 2.79:1 ratio.

[Millennial Falcon]

Here is the end of this thread, I'm calling it quits already.

No matter how many times i play it out in my head, i just cant bring myself to pull the trigger on this project. Its a tremendous amount of money for me to spend only to feel like I'm halfway there. I simply do not have the garage space to do this work now that my father-in-laws shop is not an option and my back cant really handle the heavy stuff anymore.

I did some soul searching while on vacation and admitted to myself that this will never be a good hobby. Its a job that i either finish or it never drives again. I simply refuse to put myself in a position like that with something i love.

This realization has me feeling quite depressed and I haven't so much as looked at the thing in weeks.

I promise that when the time comes i will sell her to someone that cares and not let it rot in my garage.

[dhbfaster]

(Ignore the question marks…not sure why my iPad keeps doing that.)
Sorry to hear that Matt. I do think most people can easily spend much more than they originally thought in both time and money and it can easily add up. I just looked at mine kind of like a car payment with some spikes in it, but at times it was painful. I probably couldn?t have done it if I had other car payments at the time. And, having a place to work on it is definitely key.
I had an internet business on the side once.it was a grand idea, but bottom line was that I was spending a lot every month as well as time late into the night every day and ultimately found that to really make I would have had to put everything at risk, and in the end I called it quits. It still hurts to think about it, but it was the right decision.
On the other hand, when I first started my car and really started to get into it like you have, I went through a lot and had a lot of frustrations. One thing Jeff said to me one time really stuck. There are no real deadlines in this? (or something like that) He was right. I started to slow down a bit and enjoy the process more and spread out the spending a bit more and eliminated the frustration.
I also couldn?t have done what I did without this club. I had so much help. One day with a few people from the club helping got more done than I could in six months by myself, and that happened several times. Don’t underestimate that part. My car was also my grandfathers and I had a history with it. If I didn?t, I don’t think I would have finished.

[Millennial Falcon]

Well this is embarrassing. Time to give an update on the project I quit on.

Spent many days rereading the inline six book by Cox and Mauer, poring over the old info posts by Classic Inlines, and using online calculators of various kinds. I've gone deep into the weeds with every forum post related to my endeavors and come away far more knowledgeable. I've shopped for and located all the things I hadn't thought of before. I feel ready, but my trigger finger keeps shaking anyway.

The 170 will be replaced with a rebuilt 200 and C4 from a 68 mustang using an '80 200 large log head, all three already in hand and on stand. The head will be milled to get the combustion chambers to 52cc after I match the chambers and clean up the ports and casting as much as possible. All of this hinges on a good magnaflux that I should have done soon.

I have plans to add oversized exhaust valves to the list if I can find the 144ci intake valves. I haven't been looking long, so hopefully they show up soon.

Cam will be the Clay Smith 256/256 110 coupled with the stock 1:1.52 rocker arms. This should be a nice low rpm power band and comfortable ride on the highway with a 2.89 thereabouts rear end. You can’t have everything with your set up and that’s as close as I can come to making it a reasonably good driver and just a touch fun.

Block will be magnafluxed also, but less worried about that one. If it passes and isn't bored over 0.060" already I should be good to go for the zero decking, balancing, new flat top pistons, and ARP fasteners.

I have a gold Holley Sniper 1100 unit with the matching hyperspark distributor, (blue finish, if you care) ignition box, and fuel tank with pump ready to go.

I plan to buy the double timing chain assembly from V.I. Even though the things I read about it make me nervous. Hoping I can make it work.

I am also buying the Scott Drake dual outlet header and hoping the RobbMc 3001 mini starter can allow a good fit if it causes trouble. It should be an enlightening experience. Install with stage 8 locking bolts planned.

I will use the Champion EC251-6 aluminum radiator with a recovery tank. Seems like a good solution for avoiding an electric fan and improving cooling. This will be coupled with a high flow water pump.

Because I am still only human I picked out a few goodies like billet thermostat housing, billet water pump pulley, a polished Powermaster retro 1G 75 amp alternator, and a mustang Sprint 200 air cleaner remake. The engine will be finished in the correct Ford blue with the original valve cover in blue also and the raised lettering stenciled in gold. I'm trying to come up with another hit of gold but I just can't decide. Anyone else with a flair for the sorta flashy?

I tell myself I am waiting to pull the trigger when the head passes magnaflux. Fingers crossed!

[Luva65wagon]

Sounds like it should be a good build. Built a very similar setup last year for and with Jeff for his wagon. He managed to find probably the last, or so it seems, 8" 4-lug rear end and we put that in along with him upgrading to 14" wheels and tires. We had a bit of fun along the way with all the issues I found others had done or things I found wasn't quite right along the way. He went with a Weber 2-barrel instead of fuel injection, which wasn't without a hurdle or three. There were many unexpected and often unprofessional issues we dealt with, so hope you have better luck. He's happy with it, so that's really all that matters.

So, are you building the motor or is someone else building it to your specs?

[Millennial Falcon]

So, are you building the motor or is someone else building it to your specs?

I am pretty hung up on this point. I don't feel it's a good idea to try transporting a full crankshaft assembly around in some pointless effort to save a few bucks.
I intended to do a complete tear down myself. But this idea does concern me, as I might not catch something that the machine shop would and the cam bearings sound like a bear of a task.

I think I know the answer is let the machine shop do the entire short block. I'm just reluctant because I know cost creep will ruin most of my plans.

if anyone has recommendations I would gladly take them.

My father in-law knows 'a guy' to do the head. That so far has been my best lead. My father in-law is also a boisterous man with a tendency to be relentless with arguing opinions. He simply does not acknowledge my plans and my choices already made. At this point I have spent 3 years going over all my options and I know for sure what I want now.

I am sorry for rambling about this, I just feel very alone on this journey. This a wedding cake with no recipe and one shot to get it right. All the bakers before me left bread crumbs but no instructions. Every cake will be just a little bit different. Some will be edible, some not. What will mine be?
I have to admit I am terrified of what comes out of that oven, it scares the crap out of me. I'm just a worrier doing my best.

[Luva65wagon]

Knowing how to do a thing and doing it is usually limited by the cost of the tool to do it. I can do all the things, having done them in a past life, but have no tools to do certain things, so I defer them to those who do.

I have used the same machine shop for over 40 years. The same guy has been there most of them. Even still, I trust myself more than anyone, so when we took this 200 with the 250 head in, and it took months to get it done because we were that far deep in the queue, I scrutinized everything. I found things. Not all related to them, but just, I think, the nature of the beast anymore.

Initially, there was some good things. They found the core plug holes were slightly corroded, so a couple of them were different sizes than the others. So that was interesting, but good on them to address (note the color of them, which was my first clue).

2022-06-14 18.05.09.jpg

The next thing I discovered was nobody is supplying formed rubber rear-main seals and the gasket set Jeff bought only had the rope seal, which required the pins to keep them from rotating. We since found seals being made (not by FelPro) for about $50 each, I took a V8 seal and used the main cap to determine the length and cut them to length. Worked fine.

2022-05-31 17.32.52.jpg

I also discovered the machine shop did something not so good. The heads and block were both machined and decked and shaved as needed (250 heads have way larger volume area), when I started eyeing the work, they used some wonky valve spring caps. When I called them on it, he was beside himself apologetic, and made it right, but what if I hadn't noticed and it sucked a valve because of this? The valve spring was almost 1/4" larger than the cap!?

2021-11-07 18.32.11.jpg

He had to do a lot of hunting, but finally found the correct caps.

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So were making headway. I get things going together and install the cam and find true TDC to degree the cam... and there is no way using a stock cam gear set I can come close the what Clay Smith wanted us to use. Had to buy a special cam gear set where I could change the rotation of the crank gear 4 degrees and offset one tooth on the cam gear to get the thing set. Had I set dot-to-dot, it would have been 17 degrees out. Nobody took claim where that could have come from. Clay Smith said "Not us" and I didn't call Clowes or couldn't call Ford. But the degree wheel doesn't lie. My first proof of the importance of this step.

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(Sorry the pics are sideways. Blaming the forum for that)

Then we discovered a shim washer gone MIA, so that sent us searching all over. Found it, but don't lose it.

2022-06-04 16.17.41.jpg

It's the one behind the cam key pin. Without this washer, the cam gear will lock-up solid.

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This is just the start of the build. Had I been a novice, this build would have gone south quickly. So, just putting these things out as examples of the things you might run into. There was more, but it's late. I may share more.

One thing... you mentioned needing flat top pistons, which you will with this combo. 2.3L Ford pistons are exactly the correct diameter, pin location and size. But are flat top.

[Jeff W]

I’ll add my bits to Roger’s list

1) I am the one the lost the spacer during the tear down. Shocked since I had to tear down two engines to find one usable block… somehow I lost both) ��

2) The 2.3L pistons are only sold in set of 4. Try to get both sets from the same production run for weight consistency.

3) End result, thanks to Roger and Moore Power Engineering (MPE), is smooth and wonderful!