63 Futura 'Vert, It Begins With Many Questions

[Millennial Falcon]

New to the forums and Falcon ownership.
I always admired from afar, but now I am the proud owner of a 63 Futura convertible with bucket seats and the 170 special.
I told myself that I would not buy a project car. But then, ifyou’re like me, you see what you can afford and what you can find locally and you realize quickly that you’re not getting a show car.
I feel good about the purchase so far. I started out telling myself I wanted to keep this car all original so I could go to shows and stand a chance at placing. Now I feel like I just want it to stay complete, run well,and drive safely.
My father in-law saw the car, and being a big horsepower mustang guy, he of course wants me to do a V8 swap. After doing some research, I don't feel like my chances are very good of locating all the parts needed for that swap, at least not very affordably. Am I wrong in this assumption? I read that the 63-1/2 made the V8 swap easier, Is there a method for determining if a Falcon is a 63 or a 63-1/2?
Another option is a 200 inline from a 68 mustang that I could possibly rebuild. I have no information on the age and use of this motor, I also will likely never have the money to do the Australian aluminum head. Would this swap be worth doing?
Also, I am struggling to find anyone that has done the Wilwood 4-lug disc brake kit on a falcon, anyone heard anything about it? Am I nuts for wanting to keep the 4-lug setup and just put on some Scott Drake 15x6 wheels? I know everyone will say to go 5-lug and be happy with the better selection of wheels, but it seems like a bigger undertaking than I really want to get into. (remember, I’m still telling myself this is not a project car!)

[Luva65wagon]

Matt,

If it's a convertible, it's going to be a later 1/2 year. They did the convertible when the did the hardtop 63 1/2, so that gives you (as I recall) torque boxes up front just like a V8 car had. All hardtops/verts got them, whether V8 or not.

As for 8 or not to 8, you'd be changing all the running gear and front suspension bits. Best donor car is a 65 V8 Falcon as it's a direct bolt-in. I was fortunate to get all I needed - including rims with new tires - for $400 when I built my Ranchero, but that was being in the right spot at the right time. Unlikely to get that sort of a deal unless you can find a person selling the whole car for dirt cheap. 4-door cars are least desirable and more often cheaper to buy if you can find one with the V8 - and complete.

Scarebird is probably a better route to go with doing disc brakes on your bird. We (as a club) did the R&D install for them a decade ago and it's a sound kit - and they use all off the shelf parts, so when something fails you're not at the mercy of some expensive aftermarket source. Just go to the local parts house. Just Google "Scarebird" and you'll get to their web site.

If it were me I'd keep the 6 until you get the vision for what you want to do. You'll ultimately grow into the car and see how easy it is to work on and want to make some mods along the way. Just be careful not to chew off more than you can swallow and end up with a car up on blocks forever, which is the main reason folks loose interest and never finish them.

Post some pics when you get a chance. We'd love to get some new project pics to look at.

[Millennial Falcon]

Thanks so much for the Scarebird recommendation Roger!
That looks perfect, but it will put me in a bad position also. I noticed the 4-lug kit will not allow my original wheels to fit. Going to 5-lug will expand my wheel options, but then I’m into finding the right rear end to match.
Because i have learned my lesson in the past with temporary hold-over purchases, i like to buy what i plan to use for good. Buying new wheels and tires will easily eat up $1k of my budget, almost half.
Im thinking now after some research that i should first tackle the most unsafe component in my Falcon, the brake master cylinder.
AutoKrafters has a bolt on kit to install a brake booster and a new master with dual reservoirs for about $400. Ive read that it should be a pretty good upgrade even with drums, and a proportioning valve will allow me to upgrade to the Scarebird discs when i want.
What do you think, should i buy new wheels? Going to discs will force me into it anyway. I’m just concerned about blowing most of my budget going to disc brakes and then having little left for everything else that might go wrong down the road.
BTW, I’ve got about $2400 to spend on ensuring its road trip worthy, seems like a tall order. She hesitates and sometimes stalls off the line, but otherwise runs fine. Any ideas on what i should focus on?

[Luva65wagon]

Stock 14" rims will fit the Scarebird setup, but not the 13" rims. I had minor fitment issues even with 14" rims, but I suspect it was probably the different caliper manufacturer variations to cause that. It was an easy fix. There is a few threads here on the subject if you just search "scarebird" in the search tool. We did the R&D "test fit" for them on the very first Falcon setup (the car we did is still used on their site and probably their install instructions), so we documented it here pretty well. I then did it on my (then) station wagon, so you'll see in that thread a few changes I made; namely, adding splash plates.

There are other 4-lug rims out there, but your choices rise considerably with the 5-lug rims. If you need tires, then you may want rims while you're at it. That's a tough one to direct someones choice on.

I agree with where you went with doing what is "really" needed to get the car safe and comfortable to drive with all the brainless cars out there. A Falcon doesn't allow you much opportunity to go brainless while driving, so a safe car and defensive driving habit is pretty much mandatory. We offer to members of the club the install labor to go to dual master cylinder (you supply the parts, and maybe the space to do the work - but sometimes one of our spaces). Not sure you need to go full power brakes with the 6, but the dual M/C is a simple add and adds the safety. The original 6-cyl brakes are pretty small in grand scheme of things, but rebuilt and all they've stopped these cars for 60 years.

As for the hesitation, the carburetor may need a rebuild, or someone put the wrong carburetor on. These engines came with a pretty funky distributor advance thing called "Load-O-Matic" (you can google that to learn more) and uses only a vacuum advance on the distributor to operate any timing advance. For this feature to work you MUST have a carburetor with this circuit and the vacuum diaphragm on the distributor has to function. The distributor is easy to test by pulling a vacuum on the diaphragm to see if the plate inside (with the points) move and hold as you suck, but you'd probably just want to snap a picture of your carburetor so we can see what you have for the fastest support on that. You'd be surprised how many early 6 cylinder cars are driving around with no advance circuit at all due to just having the wrong carburetor on it.

Lots to digest, I know, but you can get a lot of miles on that $2400 if you proceed carefully and with some knowledge of some tidbits.

[Millennial Falcon]

Im really leaning towards the 4-lug scarebird and a dual MC now.
I found some wheels that might work; U.S. Wheel 52 Series Chrome Smoothie Wheels 52-5608.
Theyre a 15x6 with 3-5/8"Backspacing, but no matter how I searched it, I just couldn't confirm for sure they will fit. Anyone see a glaring issue?

I will have pics of the motor posted when I get off work.
I really appreciate the help in getting this shopping list going. No expensive mistakes!

[Millennial Falcon]

So, here is the carb and distributor.
BDDBC144-F0BF-48A2-B7C9-9D943F228A7E.jpgE74B514E-1144-4592-95B6-3E1C19665A33.jpg2BF205BD-910E-4FE4-A727-9AEE40F9417E.jpg
I hope these are close enough to get the info needed.

I will post pics of the rest of the Falcon once we get a decent day to take it out.
Of course i bought it in the winter, a toy i cant play with.

[Luva65wagon]

So it is a manual choke Autolite 1100 WITH the correct Load-O-Matic circuit. So that is good. From the exterior it doesn't look too grimy, so do this quick accelerator pump test. Run the car a minute at most (just to make sure the float level in the carburetor is reached) and before it gets too hot to mess with turn the motor off, go out and look down the throat of the carburetor (eye protection - choke fully open - motor OFF) and pump the gas linkage manually from under the hood while looking down the carburetor. You should see a reasonable amount of fuel getting pumped down the throat of the carburetor. If you don't see it, or it is minimal, then the accelerator pump diaphragm (the one on the drivers side of the carburetor) isn't doing what it's supposed to. Could be a few things if that's the case, but if you see that linkage is operating that diaphragm as well, then a rebuild is in its future. They are pretty simple to rebuild if the core is sound. If it pumps fuel well, then move onto the distributor advance.

Take the distributor cap and rotor off and check to see if the advance diaphragm is functioning. To do this open up the vacuum line leading to the vacuum advance (you have a ~2in. splice of hose just in front of the carburetor on the metal vacuum line that hopefully gives you a suction point). Put a small extended piece of hose on the distributor side of that metal line and while someone is watching the points plate in the distributor suck on the hose leading down to the distributor and see if the points plate moves when you suck on the hose. You should also be able to suck and plug off the line with your tongue and the plate should stay put until you release the vacuum. If you have a hand vacuum pump, you can use that too. If you seem to be able to suck air through that tube, then the diaphragm is bad. If there is a vacuum on the line and the plate doesn't move with suction, see if you can move it by hand but pushing/pulling the little arm on the point plate towards the vacuum diaphragm. It should move easily and may just need some help and then some cleaning/lube to get it freed up.

Alternatively, if all this sounds sucky, you can hook up a timing light with all the vacuum hoses connected and watch the timing mark on the front of the motor as you rev up the motor. The timing marks should move more advanced as you rev up. The Load-O-Matic stuff isn't as easy to check this way, since the engine won't be under any load, but it should move the marks.

Hopefully some part of this made sense.

[Millennial Falcon]

I got ahold of Scarebird and they don’t sound the least bit interested in helping me figure out their kit. I don’t really feel good about buying their stuff anymore.

I think ill just keep digging on which MC to buy and install that, seems like the best thing i can do with my time and money for now.

*edit- It appears i should have looked closer at my reply. There was an attachment that went into great detail about the process of installing these parts. When read thoroughly, a list of needed and recommended parts will start to emerge, along with a list of confirmed rotors and calipers. Everything i was looking for!
By trade i am a nuclear reactor mechanic, so a mechanic in the loosest sense of the word. I must have up to date references, drawings, authorization forms, and a reason to not milk it before i can even turn a wrench!
My apologies to Mark from Scarebird, if he’s on here.

Roger, i really appreciate your help in this. Your suggestions are very helpful and yet you have no obligation, thank you so much.

[Luva65wagon]

Hey, I'm just glad they're still the service focused business they were last I worked with them. I doubt Mark would be here, but you never know who's lurking about.

[MacDee]

The guy who owned the Falcon that had the first Scarebird four-lug Falcon install... still lurks.
Alas, he doesn't own a Falcon anymore.

[Luva65wagon]

Alas the guy who had the second (in the club) Scarebird install and then had the first, doesn't have the first or the second cars anymore... and still lurks around here.

Gary, good to hear from you. Hope y'all are doing well!

[Millennial Falcon]

Hi Gary!
Any chance you have any helpful hints to creating my shopping list?
Id love to hear from someone that’s been through it what to buy.
I picture myself telling my father in-law, ‘I’m just waiting for another part’ two months into tying up his lift all summer.

[Luva65wagon]

Though it was Gary's 63 Hardtop used as the initial installation of the Scarebird 4-lug setup, it was mostly installed by me that day. We had a good sized group there doing things like master cylinder swap and other removal of things, but the install of the Scarebird bits was "delegated" to me (or maybe I just took it over - I tend to do that sort of thing). I then, at a later date, did the same install on my then 65 Tudor station wagon. There are threads on this forum detailing most, if not all, of this work.

Gary had procured a pair of hubs to have them machined down to fit into rotors, which has to be done. I had access to a machine shop at work at the time and got his old hubs when all was said and done with his and so I had those machined and ready for my swap. I know they offer these hubs now, so if you don't have access to a shop to machine yours, then you might want to consider this option.

I added splash shields scavenged off an old square-body Volvo since there is no provision for this in the kit or instructions, but old Falcons and greasy ball joints etc. told be the shields would make sense ; regardless the recommendation on Scarebird's site that they are not necessary. So take that as you may. I've attached pictures of my install, but Gary's (and mine) are also in the wayback search on this forum if you search Scarebird.

[MacDee]

Yeah, Roger did most of the work.
My contribution consisted of going down to Les Schwab and buying a new set of 14-inch whitewalls, and swapping the center Falcon "knock-offs" from the 13-inch "wire" wheel covers over to the 14-inch "wire" wheel covers salvaged from a Galaxie.
The only issue we had was that the new longer wheel studs were a loose fit in the hubs. We... actually Mark from Scarebird... ended up just gluing them in with J-B Weld. I think this is why Mark offers new hubs now.

[Millennial Falcon]

It appears Scarebird no longer carries the hubs, though i could be wrong.
I should be able to get my hubs machined no problem, so i think I’m good there.
However, I cant decide on new studs or reaming the rotors. Reaming is easier, but I’d hate to waste time tearing it all back down if it turns out i need wheel spacers. (And then potentially my reamed rotors are no bueno for this setup anymore? Not sure.)

The wheels I’m looking at are 15x6 and have a 3-3/4” backspace. I plan to install 205/60-15s with an OD of 24.7”.
Any thoughts on if these will fit? Seems more mild than a lot of setups I’ve seen people pull off without mods.

Ive got a feeling this little bird will be stuck on a lift for a while as i make sure piece by piece it all fits, might just hold off till the summer is over.

Update: I have inspected the distributor advance as described. Utilizing a vacuum pump i attempted to draw a vacuum on the line to the distributor. The distributor does advance, however it will not hold a vacuum. I placed a ‘T’ fitting and gauge on it and ran the motor. It did not move the needle a noticeable amount, yet the motor did change idle when the vacuum line was left open to atmosphere. Any thoughts?