A/C system advice -- '63 Futura Convertible...

[falconero]

Hello all,
Neal from Utah here. This is my first post. I am glad to be a member and hope to profit from (as well as contribute what I can) the advice and knowledge of seasoned Falcon owners here. I'll work on getting posts and pics up in the new members thread soon.

I am hoping this community can share some wisdom and offer advice on purchasing and installing an air conditioning system for a 1963 Futura Sport Convertible restomod with a 347 stroker.

Ideally, I'd like to have at least 3 or 4 directional louvered vents. One on each side of the driver and one or two for the passenger side as well. I'd hope it could blow a fairly strong blast of chilled air onto the driver and front passenger's lower torso as I am able to do in more modern convertibles. And of course, I'd alike it to appear vintage and basically integrated

Any advice on products, systems, configurations or things to look out for would be useful.

Thanks,
Neal
:)

[Luva65wagon]

Welcome Neal. The only really established modern aftermarket AC mfr. is Vintage Air. Have you looked into their stuff? I'd assume, if they have nothing listed for a Falcon, they might for a 64-66 Mustang, which would be pert-near the same.

[pbrown]

I've seen kits for the 64/65 Falcon. I think the only part that wouldn't work would be the controls. I suspect the compressor, evap, condenser, etc would all fit. Maybe give them a call and see what they say.

https://www.vintageair.com/surefit/complete-kits/?make=Ford&year1=1965&model=Falcon

[falconero]

Welcome Neal. The only really established modern aftermarket AC mfr. is Vintage Air. Have you looked into their stuff? I'd assume, if they have nothing listed for a Falcon, they might for a 64-66 Mustang, which would be pert-near the same.



I've seen kits for the 64/65 Falcon. I think the only part that wouldn't work would be the controls. I suspect the compressor, evap, condenser, etc would all fit. Maybe give them a call and see what they say.

https://www.vintageair.com/surefit/complete-kits/?make=Ford&year1=1965&model=Falcon

Thanks, for all the replies. I really appreciate it.

I had been aware of vintage air as company, but for some reason, I did not think they had a kit. I called earlier in the week and one "Jason" offered to help me build a kit, piecemeal, but needs more info on my rig. I'll need to talk to him again soon. I suppose that I can base my custom 'kit' off of that list. It would get me to the point where I was getting "hit" with a/c from both sides. Though at least one forum post said that the Vintage A/C rectangular vents are not very good and to go with round units. I suppose, if I could modify where the stereo reciever is mounted, that system "as is" might work.

"Old Air Products" also offers a system (https://www.oldairproducts.com/product/50-0013-underhood-performance-kit/Default.aspx?gfid=p122475-c152609&source=googleshopping&source=googleshopping&adnetwork=u&adtag1=&adtag2=&adcreative=358544127295&adposition=&admatchtype=&adkeyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0ozQhrPc9QIV1x-tBh3vlw6uEAQYAyABEgJMuPD_BwE) at 1/3 the price, but they were not very helpful on the phone. Nostaligic A/C has a system as well (https://nostalgicac.com/complete-ac-kits/ford-complete-kits/ford-ac-kits-for-cars/1963-1967-ford-falcon-underdash-ac-kit.html#gallery-prev-area), priced in the middle. It could have been them that were most unhelpful, I'll try and look through my notes. A rod builder shop suggested I look to Classic Auto Air (http://www.classicautoair.com) who seem to offer a kit that blends with our current HV non-ac system (https://www.classicautoair.com/shop/complete-ac-systems/1964-ford-mustang-air-conditioning-system/) or one that works stand alone (https://www.classicautoair.com/shop/complete-ac-systems/underdash-ac-systems/daily-driver-complete-ac-kits/1964-ford-mustang-daily-driver-ac-kit/), but they do not list "1963" Falcons.

But, if as far as you guys know, everyone uses Vintage Air components, then perhaps I should stick with them. I'd have to enlist some help with this sort of install and restoration shops have quoted some eye popping estimates with one shop suggesting I should count on spending about $6000 to $7000! I'll wilt in the desert heat before paying that much. Most restoration, building blogs suggested that a full system installed could be contracted for about $900 to $1600. That seems like a pipe dream at this point.

Nonetheless, I am quite confused at this point, but hopefully the path forward will become more clear with continued research,

Thanks for all the suggestions,
Neal


Edit: sorry, I cant seem to get my links to work. Perhaps I am too new a member. I'll have a look with the bb code editor and see what I can figure out.

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[Luva65wagon]

Neal, I've been watching these be installed for years and they're not beyond the capability of most a old car guy who can wrench I know. You also have YouTube University at your disposal. Or get a local Falcon member, like me, (but not me - a bit far to drive) who'd help you do it for the Falcon Member Discount. We're out there.

:WHATTHE:

And it wasn't Kindigit you got that estimate from, is it?

[falconero]

Neal, I've been watching these be installed for years and they're not beyond the capability of most a old car guy who can wrench I know. You also have YouTube University at your disposal. Or get a local Falcon member, like me, (but not me - a bit far to drive) who'd help you do it for the Falcon Member Discount. We're out there.
Thanks again, LuvaWagon.

I am just getting into the scene. I just submitted my application to the Falcon Club of USA the day I joined this forum. :BIRTHDAY:

I have yet to even pick up my Falcon. It's still snuggled away in the Sactown garage of the guy who rescued/built it with his dad. I have yet to even lay eyes on my future bride. Yes, I have simply bought my way in. Hopefully, the fact that I have lusted after a Falcon since I was a teen may procure me a little slack in that regard.

My brother in Klamath Falls is more of the wrencher in the family. I can do basic bolt on stuff (if I don't break anything, except my knuckles, in the process :p), but Eric used to be a body man (now a fisheries biologist) and has restored a number of 1st-gen Cougars as well as 1st-gen Chevelles. He was the one who did my in-person inspection on the vehicle. As spray man by primary talent, I never heard him not find serious flaw in a paint job until now.

I am quite sure I will need someone with more experience than me to pull off this install as I am more of a cgi/multimedia guy. Hopefully, after I get the car back, I can ingratiate myself to the Utah classic muscle scene. Maybe their are even other Falcon Club members out here in Zion.




https://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/images/smilies/whatthe.gif

And it wasn't Kindigit you got that estimate from, is it?
Nope, I've avoided Kindigit as they seem a tad too much about flash for me. I'd be afraid I wouldn't get my car back for years and then it'd come back all fugly. :ROTFLMAO:

This was a guy down in Provo. Only worked by the hour and told me to expect 65 billed shop hours plus hardware.
:confused:



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[gtaroger]

I installed theVintage Air unit into my 65 Falcon two years ago. It works great. You can turn the air on on a 90 degree day and get it so cool you have to turn it off or turn it down. It really puts out the cold air. I have used it once with the heater. It got the inside of the car so warm that I had to turn the temp down.I found installing it to be not to hard. I had to change the hoses around a little bit to get the look I was going for.GTA7858Roger

[Tom P]

I generally don't like the clutter of AC but have grown less fond of driving on 100 degree days without air. A setup I was looking at is electric... like the AC on electric cars. Sean Hyland had parts for that. Looks like it could be mounted in the trunk with very few parts needed up front.

But i'm not sure they are still around www.seanhylandmotorsport.com (http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/) ? Someone must offer that stuff, or it could be taken from any electric or hybrid at a wrecking yard. Looks like a curling rock. about a foot diameter and around 5" high.

[Tom P]

Here is a different looking and smaller compressor ....
(71) How we set up ELECTRIC AIR CONDITIONING in our 1300 hp road-going race car - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRo05wph2F0)


And here is that for sale too Electric Compressors – TCCI (tccimfg.com) (https://tccimfg.com/electric-compressors/?utm_source=google_search&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ec_campaign&gclid=CjwKCAiAprGRBhBgEiwANJEY7KFyb0UDHV9koQ6eTpJE r-TfCfN_up6exxj_LLx2I0IWT7jYPV3bWxoCgOgQAvD_BwE)

[falconero]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I have been out in Cali, making the purchase and seeing some family. I will post some pics in the introductions forum as soon as I get a chance.


I generally don't like the clutter of AC but have grown less fond of driving on 100 degree days without air. A setup I was looking at is electric... like the AC on electric cars. Sean Hyland had parts for that. Looks like it could be mounted in the trunk with very few parts needed up front.

But i'm not sure they are still around www.seanhylandmotorsport.com (http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/) ? Someone must offer that stuff, or it could be taken from any electric or hybrid at a wrecking yard. Looks like a curling rock. about a foot diameter and around 5" high.
That sounds interesting. The couple of install guys I have talked to seem to be into the Vintage Air route. I will look into it.


I installed theVintage Air unit into my 65 Falcon two years ago. It works great. You can turn the air on on a 90 degree day and get it so cool you have to turn it off or turn it down. It really puts out the cold air. I have used it once with the heater. It got the inside of the car so warm that I had to turn the temp down.I found installing it to be not to hard. I had to change the hoses around a little bit to get the look I was going for. GTA
Roger
That encouraging, but their surefit series does not list the 1963 Falcon and I have a 347 stroker. The installation is certainly beyond my skills, so I'll have to rely on help.

The one, seemingly, quite competent installer I talked to suggested I ditch the mechanical fan, and the electric fan in front, and install a giant, low profile electric fan to make room for the condenser. He also called the output of my alternator into question.


Here is a different looking and smaller compressor ....
(71) How we set up ELECTRIC AIR CONDITIONING in our 1300 hp road-going race car - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRo05wph2F0)

And here is that for sale too Electric Compressors ? TCCI (tccimfg.com) (https://tccimfg.com/electric-compressors/?utm_source=google_search&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ec_campaign&gclid=CjwKCAiAprGRBhBgEiwANJEY7KFyb0UDHV9koQ6eTpJE r-TfCfN_up6exxj_LLx2I0IWT7jYPV3bWxoCgOgQAvD_BwE)

I will look into the idea of an electrical unit, which should leave me even more thoroughly confused than I am right now. :confused: :D

[Tom P]

With the electrical one you simply need a better alternator and nothing needs to be mounted to the engine. There are also very small belt driven compressors. Most aftermarket kits use Sanden's for 1980's cars, take a look at the AC compressor on a new car, some are quite small.

[gtaroger]

If you don't think you are capable of installing it your self, there are people out there who can do the job at a reasonable price. I think Vintage air has a list of some of them.I called a guy to see about having him install mine. The guy I called and spoke to was a bit of a ways from here . he seemed quit capable of doing the job and the price was fair. I decided to do the install myself. I don't know why you think that Vintage Air's vents are to small, They put out plenty of air.On hot summer days I turn the fan on to about 1/4 speed and it keeps the inside of my car nice.

[pbrown]

I didn't see any budget listed so thought I'd throw this out. There are several of these belt systems available for the SBF. Many use the SN95 reverse rotation water pump and timing cover. This provides extra clearance for an electric puller fan.

https://www.billetspecialties.com/Store/Wheels/engine-accessories/tru-trac-serpentine-systems/ford/small-block-ford/item/tru-trac-serpentine-system-small-block-ford-/

For hoses, I like the Aeroquip A/C hose system. This can be self assembled.

https://hosewarehouse.com/collections/aeroquip-a-c

[falconero]

It looks like gravity and inertia seems to be sucking me into a Vintage air gen-IV. Hopefully someone has shoved one of the into a 1963 Falcon before w/o too much work.

Gen-IV units are 16 weeks on back order, but I have managed to find one in MS that I am having shipped out.

Thinking of using a Chinese Sanden 508 knock off compressor that comes in chrome for about half price of the actual 508's.


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[gtaroger]

TheVintage Air has two vents at the outer ends of the dash and two vents in the center of the dash.Vintage air sells a control for the air system that you can mount under the dash. Go to Vintage Air on your computer they have all kinds of custom parts to install the air.You should be able to put together a system to fit your car. Shop around there are people out there who can install it at a fair price.The 6k to 7k is outright crazy. The guy I spoke to gave me a price of about $1500.00 complete to install. After installing it myself ,I think that was a fair price.I would advice upgrading the water pump,130 amp alternator,high out put electric fan and shroud.If your engine is modified you will need a good aftermarket radiator.I did all of those listed and it still gets to 205 to 210 in bumper to bumper cruising.It was worth all the work and expence.It's so nice to turn on the air on hot days will were doing the cruises.

[falconero]

TheVintage Air has two vents at the outer ends of the dash and two vents in the center of the dash.Vintage air sells a control for the air system that you can mount under the dash. Go to Vintage Air on your computer they have all kinds of custom parts to install the air.You should be able to put together a system to fit your car. Shop around there are people out there who can install it at a fair price.The 6k to 7k is outright crazy. The guy I spoke to gave me a price of about $1500.00 complete to install. After installing it myself ,I think that was a fair price.I would advice upgrading the water pump,130 amp alternator,high out put electric fan and shroud.If your engine is modified you will need a good aftermarket radiator.I did all of those listed and it still gets to 205 to 210 in bumper to bumper cruising.It was worth all the work and expence.It's so nice to turn on the air on hot days will were doing the cruises.

Thanks for your reply.

My plan is to skip the center vents and go with ball vents one on each side of the driver and one on each side of the passenger. My worry is fitting the gen-IV system under the dash (I'd prefer to keep my glove box), tapping the defrost vents, mounting the compressor, getting hoses through the firewall and how the control system and ball will fit to the lower lip of the the dash.

I will try to upload my parts list when I get a chance.

Thanks,
Neal


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[gtaroger]

I used a 65 Mustang Vintage Air kit.