Trans linkage adjustment

[dkutz]

Tips on adjusting shifter linkage? Ou 62 falcon is difficult to shift into second, can do it by double clutching, or waiting...for ever. Also will not down shift into second. synro not working? Slight grind into third. Think it might be out of adjustment from the new motor mounts moving everything up? And tricks or just trial and error?

[Luva65wagon]

Shoot, you know, I've made adjustments to these and it's been so long I can't recall how best to advise.

My best recollection is to put the shifter in neutral, make sure the two levers near the steering box are aligned, loosen the bolts holding the shift rods onto the transmission shift levers and make sure they are in their neutral position as well, then when all the levers on the column and the transmission are in neutral - tighten the nuts to lock them in place. If one of the levers on the transmission is not fully into its neutral when the shift levers on the column are in their neutral position, or vice versa, the cross-over from one lever to the other will not happen smoothly. No way to assess the syncro's on 2-3 until you know the shift lever crossover points are not the cause.

[dkutz]

looked at it again today. The is no hole in the levers on the column. But, in neutral bot trans levers are also in neutral and they are loose, no tension. There is a lot of slop in the linkage on the tranny end so maybe that? Just don’t know anymore.

[Luva65wagon]

Yeah, there are no alignment holes on column shifter. Just as long as the levers on the column are aligned with each other and the levers on the transmission are in their neutral spots - that's about all you can do for cross-over. 4-speed, floor shifters have a hole you put a pin in to align neutral.

You may have syncho's going, but the oddity is that all was well before. Perhaps give the clutch rod a half-turn at a time to give you more disengagement. You did go through the clutch bits, so it might not be releasing fully. I'm having some difficulty with this since it doesn't present itself with any 1st and Reverse grinding, which neither have synchos. Lastly, make sure your gear oil level is correct. Pull the upper side plug and the level of 90-W gear oil should be just at the lower edge of that plug.

[dkutz]

Yeah, there are no alignment holes on column shifter. Just as long as the levers on the column are aligned with each other and the levers on the transmission are in their neutral spots - that's about all you can do for cross-over. 4-speed, floor shifters have a hole you put a pin in to align neutral.

You may have syncho's going, but the oddity is that all was well before. Perhaps give the clutch rod a half-turn at a time to give you more disengagement. You did go through the clutch bits, so it might not be releasing fully. I'm having some difficulty with this since it doesn't present itself with any 1st and Reverse grinding, which neither have synchos. Lastly, make sure your gear oil level is correct. Pull the upper side plug and the level of 90-W gear oil should be just at the lower edge of that plug.

the clutch adjustment is all the way out.. and I topped off the trans fluid before we put it all. Back together. So frustrated right now. Car is practically undrivable.

[Luva65wagon]

So, engine off. You can smoothly go through the gears? Quickly?

Where is the clutch adjustment you are making? The Falcon only had one adjustment from the factory, which is the rod coming through the floor to the Z-bar. Did somebody add an adjustable push rod at the transmission? If you are still only using the factory adjustment at the Z-bar, and it's all the way out and the clutch is engaging and disengaging (you should be able to stall the engine), that would indicate something worn somewhere. Or the wrong part in the loop. That Z-bar pivot should be about mid-way along the thread travel so you have... adjustment.

On FB you indicated your wife had a different experience than you. What is the current experience?

[dkutz]

Yeah the z bar adjustment is all the way out. Literally to the end of the threaded rod. The clutch is engaging. Not positive it is disengaging all the way. Since it still is very hard to shift into second and the synco isn’t firing to down shift from third. If I double clutch from first to second it shifts.

[Luva65wagon]

The things I can recall seeing over these many years on these old Falcons to cause a clutch issue are:

1) Hole in the clutch rod, under the dash, where there is no bushing, but is a wear point, the hole in that rod or the pin on the clutch pedal are just worn to beat all. A combo of both will give you that run out of thread issue.

2) the Z-bar bushing at the frame or on the side of the block are worn or gone causing the Z-bar to be a rattler - causing too much play in the system causing that run out of thread issue.

3) The clutch rod at the transmission , which also has a hole and a pin engagement deal with no wear bushings is worn to beat all and causing the run out of thread issue.

4) The clutch rod at the transmission is bent or the wrong one bringing the center point of the thread issue to be off center.

5) The clutch lever into the bell housing, where the clutch rod "point" sits in the indentation well, which is a wear point and can over time have the well go deeper, can cause the run out of thread issue.

6) I've had a faulty rebuilt clutch pressure plate (both "new" out of the box) on two occasions where the the three lever arms on the clutch do not equally relieve the clutch disc (the pressure plate releases cattywompus like) and you adjust the thread to the end and yet it never fully releases though the movement of everything should be more than enough. This is hard to diagnose. I only know to test it with the transmission yanked. Of course I know 1-5 above are not the issue first.

There may be others that come to mind. A guy's been at this a long time and may forget a thing or two along the way. Ultimately, knowing for sure whether the clutch is in fact disengaging is the key here before even thinking about transmission internals.

The fact you have now no further adjustment on the clutch rod says to start at #1 and see whether there are wear issues.

Could be the engine, where it was sitting before the work began, worked in your favor to negate any "wear issue" results, but in the correct position (assuming now is the correct place) reveals them. But wear points are easily checked, but not easily remedied. Most of the ones I've encountered required some welding and grinding to restore lost metal.

Just breathe and be systematic and I'm sure you'll have that ah ha moment - THERE IT IS!

[dkutz]

The things I can recall seeing over these many years on these old Falcons to cause a clutch issue are:

1) Hole in the clutch rod, under the dash, where there is no bushing, but is a wear point, the hole in that rod or the pin on the clutch pedal are just worn to beat all. A combo of both will give you that run out of thread issue.

2) the Z-bar bushing at the frame or on the side of the block are worn or gone causing the Z-bar to be a rattler - causing too much play in the system causing that run out of thread issue.

3) The clutch rod at the transmission , which also has a hole and a pin engagement deal with no wear bushings is worn to beat all and causing the run out of thread issue.

4) The clutch rod at the transmission is bent or the wrong one bringing the center point of the thread issue to be off center.

5) The clutch lever into the bell housing, where the clutch rod "point" sits in the indentation well, which is a wear point and can over time have the well go deeper, can cause the run out of thread issue.

6) I've had a faulty rebuilt clutch pressure plate (both "new" out of the box) on two occasions where the the three lever arms on the clutch do not equally relieve the clutch disc (the pressure plate releases cattywompus like) and you adjust the thread to the end and yet it never fully releases though the movement of everything should be more than enough. This is hard to diagnose. I only know to test it with the transmission yanked. Of course I know 1-5 above are not the issue first.

There may be others that come to mind. A guy's been at this a long time and may forget a thing or two along the way. Ultimately, knowing for sure whether the clutch is in fact disengaging is the key here before even thinking about transmission internals.

The fact you have now no further adjustment on the clutch rod says to start at #1 and see whether there are wear issues.

Could be the engine, where it was sitting before the work began, worked in your favor to negate any "wear issue" results, but in the correct position (assuming now is the correct place) reveals them. But wear points are easily checked, but not easily remedied. Most of the ones I've encountered required some welding and grinding to restore lost metal.

Just breathe and be systematic and I'm sure you'll have that ah ha moment - THERE IT IS!

could be 6 or 3

i did change the pressure plate so if that is defective that could be it.

and the shift rod puns are pretty loose so it could be that but don’t know how to replace it. Don’t think anyone sells parts for it, so do I just find a pin close in size?

don’t think it’s any of the others, cause the the lever into the trans is fully extended, and almost hitting the bell housing.

really don’t want to take it apart

[Luva65wagon]

... cause the the lever into the trans is fully extended, and almost hitting the bell housing.

really don’t want to take it apart

I get not wanting to take it apart. Been there, done that. But that 2.77 3-speed weighs about as much as a 1 yo baby and really does come out and go back in pretty quickly. The environment you're doing it in, well that can make it a less enjoyable experience than it already is. Anyway...

The comment above that piqued my curiosity a bit. Are you saying that when you apply the clutch pedal the lever going into the transmission is travelling as far as it can and almost hitting the other side of the hole that lever is going through? If it is, then you have full lever movement - and then some. That would tell me the clutch is just not disengaging as it should; as in the pressure plate. Thing is, you can leave almost all the clutch together and with the transmission out operate it to see how the pressure plate is functioning.

If I'm wrong about what you're indicating, get out your trusty smart phone out and snap a few pictures of the clutch-operating-bits so we can see what you're seeing.

[dkutz]

I get not wanting to take it apart. Been there, done that. But that 2.77 3-speed weighs about as much as a 1 yo baby and really does come out and go back in pretty quickly. The environment you're doing it in, well that can make it a less enjoyable experience than it already is. Anyway...

The comment above that piqued my curiosity a bit. Are you saying that when you apply the clutch pedal the lever going into the transmission is travelling as far as it can and almost hitting the other side of the hole that lever is going through? If it is, then you have full lever movement - and then some. That would tell me the clutch is just not disengaging as it should; as in the pressure plate. Thing is, you can leave almost all the clutch together and with the transmission out operate it to see how the pressure plate is functioning.

If I'm wrong about what you're indicating, get out your trusty smart phone out and snap a few pictures of the clutch-operating-bits so we can see what you're seeing.

yes you understood correctly. It is as far forward as it goes. Is it possible to go too far?

also I noticed again when I drove it with my pretty new carb, (thanks Roger!). That when I shift from 1st to second, I swear I hear the synchros firing. But when downshifting from 3rd to second, no synchro noise.
oh and I can shift from 1st to 3rd..no issue.

[Luva65wagon]

Interesting. You can't go too far except to say that you may be limiting the full engagement of the clutch. There is a fixed travel - based upon all the linkages and levers coming to their resting positions and moving as far as the clutch pedal moves - so if the adjustment you've made - to deal with what might really be the #2 syncho failure - is now keeping the clutch from "resting, fully engaged" (note: the throw-out bearing is NOT designed to be running 100% of the time) then you'll eventually fry the clutch disc and throw-out bearing. Pedal free play at the pedal needs to be evident; like, about an 1" - assuming the pedal is getting pushed back in to it's stop. There are adjustments for the pedal return spring under the dash to make sure it returns - hard - to the stop. This assures the throw-out bearing is not running at idle, out of gear.

[dkutz]

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[Luva65wagon]

It does appear you're reaching near the end of any travel that clutch lever can travel. It should be fully disengaging long before that. So it is either the pressure plate or the #2 synchro. I would venture a guess you are not fully releasing the clutch with the adjustments as they are. And have zero free play, meaning your throw-out bearing is always riding on the pressure plate fingers.

There is one thing in one of the pics that would concern me. Not sure how this pin is fitted, but it sure looks un-right. I doubt it is causing the shift issues, but it is an issue if that thing is loose enough to pivot forth and back to this degree.

[dkutz]

Interesting. You can't go too far except to say that you may be limiting the full engagement of the clutch. There is a fixed travel - based upon all the linkages and levers coming to their resting positions and moving as far as the clutch pedal moves - so if the adjustment you've made - to deal with what might really be the #2 syncho failure - is now keeping the clutch from "resting, fully engaged" (note: the throw-out bearing is NOT designed to be running 100% of the time) then you'll eventually fry the clutch disc and throw-out bearing. Pedal free play at the pedal needs to be evident; like, about an 1" - assuming the pedal is getting pushed back in to it's stop. There are adjustments for the pedal return spring under the dash to make sure it returns - hard - to the stop. This assures the throw-out bearing is not running at idle, out of gear.

Not sure synchro is bad since it was fine before, I think that part of the issue is the rod adjustment. But what the hell do you I know

[dkutz]

Yeah those pins are loose just don't know the best way to fix it

[Luva65wagon]

They can fail pretty quickly. They are 60 years old... and brass.

Anyway, you're learning.

You should be able to - at rest, engine off - push this lever going into the transmission bell housing, by hand, and the rod will fall relaxed into the well it is in. If you can't move the clutch lever at all by hand (taking up the play between the clutch lever/throw-out bearing and the fingers of the pressure plate) then FOR SURE the clutch adjustment is way too tight. You must have free play. All other issues of clutch disengagement or syncho failures are MOOT if you can't have free play -and- disengagement.

[Luva65wagon]

Yeah those pins are loose just don't know the best way to fix it

This pin, if loosy goosy, will play havoc with adjusting free play. Not so much with disengagement, since you can take up the play in at least one direction or the other. But I would take this clutch rod off that part, release the return spring, and look and see what is going on. This was originally a welded on pin part of the Z-bar, with a hole for a retaining clip. One side seems to be threaded, like it's a bolt or something - so what is this thing they have cobbled into where there used to be a welded in pin/pivot?

[Luva65wagon]

OK - I may be wrong. Here is a picture I found of a 6 cyl Falcon Z-bar. The V8 was welded and on the other side. This shows the same thing as yours. Will have to dig into this a bit to see how this part can get loose like this. What is the purpose of the threaded side???

But the other part of my suggestion is still relevant.

[Falcongek]

I think Roger has nailed (part) of the oroblem. My tranny is not so far adjusted.
I can see that exess free play in that pin will muck up your adjustment. I,d bet that if that pin is fixed in place you will have the adjustment nut side of the z bar with nuch more thread.

When I did my tranny I had to shim some connections to get them to move without free play.
Maybe you can shim the other end of that connection so that the bolt sits secured

[dkutz]

I think Roger has nailed (part) of the oroblem. My tranny is not so far adjusted.
I can see that exess free play in that pin will muck up your adjustment. I,d bet that if that pin is fixed in place you will have the adjustment nut side of the z bar with nuch more thread.

When I did my tranny I had to shim some connections to get them to move without free play.
Maybe you can shim the other end of that connection so that the bolt sits secured

oh you guys are looking at something else, I thought you were talking about the shift rods not the zbar. Now I need to go look

[dkutz]

It does appear you're reaching near the end of any travel that clutch lever can travel. It should be fully disengaging long before that. So it is either the pressure plate or the #2 synchro. I would venture a guess you are not fully releasing the clutch with the adjustments as they are. And have zero free play, meaning your throw-out bearing is always riding on the pressure plate fingers.

There is one thing in one of the pics that would concern me. Not sure how this pin is fitted, but it sure looks un-right. I doubt it is causing the shift issues, but it is an issue if that thing is loose enough to pivot forth and back to this degree.

worn out? Nah it’s fine!! Ha ha. For now I stuck a bolt in it, but I don’t like that I don’t have a way to lock it in place. Would also be nice to get a new pin but not sure it made.

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[Falcongek]

:WHATTHE: Nothing a wee bit of JB weld can't fix....

Can't you get a bolt with a hole for a cotter pin, of fab one yourself?

I'm wondering how much adjustment you've got on the Z bar after fixing this "minor" wear issue.

Good luck with the fix.