^1962 Ford Falcon Futura 302 overheating issues

[dennis mcgeough]

I have a 1962 Ford Falcon Futura with a 302 that's been jazzed up a little and I'm having over heating problems. After running it for awhile and the temp gauge is at 3/4 and I get in a line like Starbucks the gauge goes over the top and it starts acting funny, shaking and trying to stop running. I know the engine compartment wasn't designed to accommodate a V8 so there's that. I have vintage air which blocks some of thew air flow compounding the problem.Wrapped cast iron heads probably don't help much either. It has a regular 24 inch 4 row radiator and two 10 inch electric fans ( probably inadequate for the amount of air I need to push) which have relatively small motors. I'm running up against the problem of not having enough room to put a 16 inch fan ( larger motor ) with shroud because it won't fit with the serpentine setup, it bumps into the water pump pulley. So that's where it stands. Thinking about putting a couple larger fans in, that would cover more of the radiator with more powerful motors. I'm tired of throwing money at this thing, it's creating problems with my home life! Anyone come up against this or have any ideas on how to keep this engine from overheating?

[SmithKid]

Dennis,
I have a 302 and 3 core radiator with stock fan in my '65 that has had occasional (not real often) overheating issues. I don't have AC, so we aren't experiencing the exact same issues. However, as I'm in the middle of another issue/change, I decided to add a supposedly more efficient water pump/thermostat from FlowKooler.com (as another person has done on his stroker). I haven't actually run it yet, but hopefully in the next few weeks. I'll keep you posted if this helps my problem.
Gene

[dennis mcgeough]

Thanks for your reply! My situation is a little different than yours. For one it's a 62 Falcon which means that the engine compartment wasn't designed to accommodate a V8. They only offered a straight 6 that year. I have a new water pump and of course the AC is in front of the radiator blocking some of the air flow. I'm going to try a couple different more powerful fans before I look into getting headers. Thanks though.

[SmithKid]

Dennis,
I'm pretty certain that '60 through '65 engine compartments were all the same, with the exception that torque boxes were added to the newer chassis (not certain which years) for the V-8 equipped units, and suspension components were beefed up for the extra weight/torque. Others on here may be more certain than me about the torque boxes, but my '65 is so equipped.
Gene

[Luva65wagon]

Dennis - Gene is correct regarding the engine bay sizing. 60-65 were all identical and use the same mounts and have all the same squeeze issues getting more than "stock" to fit in their bay. AC in general, when running, will tax the system a bit and depending on how efficient the system is, may just push it over the edge. I put a 289 bored .060 over into my '63 and fought like heck to get it to run cool - though it never spewed (which most folks gauge as the point to where you say "It's overheating.") The 347 I put in last summer doesn't run much cooler, but I'm not really done installing it. Well, I am, but lets say it was a rush swap and didn't have time to address a few issues with the swap and I'm gearing up to yank it again and address those - and the heating issues - this summer.

It's tough to get cooling fans in front of a round body radiator, though I did it. It's documented in my Ranchero build thread here. I didn't have a condenser in front of the radiator to contend with, but it's a good size fan and pushed a lot of air.

Anyway, here's a couple things to consider; just off the top of my head. I may think of others and add to this:

Water pump: You indicated having serpentine belt, so does that mean you have a reverse rotation pump? And if so, is it? Hard to tell on the outside. Also, there are better pumps like Gene and I use from FlowCooler.

Pulleys: Make sure, no matter what pump you run, the pulley on the water pump and crank are near 1:1 and not undersized.

Fan: Reverse pump means fan blade needs to be the right type as well. If it applies.

Shroud: Do you have one? A shroud is essential to making sure the fan you have is doing what it can do. They are hard to install and so many don't use them because of this hassle. I don't, but sure want to. Just haven't found one to fit, yet. Ideally, you get a great pull electric fan with a built in shroud. Two birds, and all that.

Timing: Make sure you're not running retarded for most of the curve and especially at idle. If in doubt, check it.

Transmission: It's not clear in this thread whether you're running automatic or manual, but if automatic it may be using the radiator as it's cooler. I tend to avoid that and use a dedicated transmission cooler.

Antifreeze and additives: WaterWetter helps. Antifreeze is really only good for corrosion and not much for cooling. Plain water has a better heat transfer property than antifreeze. So make sure your mix isn't too rich on the antifreeze side. You can do without it around here, for the most part, if you use a dedicated corrosion inhibitor.

More as it comes to me...

[dennis mcgeough]

Thank you for all your helpful information. I really appreciate it! I'll try to respond to as much as I can but my knowledge is limited. The pulley's are fine. So I can't mount a fan in front of the AC condenser, we've established that. The fans I have on there are insufficient (two 10") under powered. Thinking about a 16" but it would have to be mounted off center so as not to interfere with the water pump pulley or two 12 inch fans, staggered. Unfortunately there isn't enough room for a shroud. I'll probably have to have the timing tinkered with again. I drove it today ant the temp got up to 224 by where the water goes into the radiator. When I got on it a bit going up a hill it pinged and sounded bad. Otherwise it responds fine when I get on it a little. I'm just not sure what else I can do if a better fan set up doesn't work. Another thing is that when I get on it I can actually feel the heat being pushed into the cab.

[dhbfaster]

HI Dennis,
Just a couple back to basics thoughts. I struggled with this one time before on another car and I didn't see these covered yet. Although it does sound like it could be air flow, I'll just put them out there:
Do you know for sure that the thermostat is working? If not, test it, or they're cheap...just replace it. (Your story makes it sound like it might not be turning on when it should...when you get to that drive through...)
Have you pointed a laser thermometer at your "in" radiator hose vs your "out" radiator hose to see what cooling drop you're getting from the radiator? I'm not sure what "good enough" is, but I'm sure you can find that.
Along those lines, do you know the water pump is actually working?
You might also use a lazer thermometer (or even better a thermal camera if you can get your hands on one) and point it at similar places around each cylinder- I would say if the temp is significantly different on one vs the others when tested in the same place, maybe you have some kind of blockage going on in that one.
This is a pretty good article....with several ideas: https://streettechmag.com/2015/06/11/troubleshooting-cooling-system/
Good luck.

[dave]

Here is what I run for what it is worth on my 1964 - 3 core Champion aluminum radiator with their shroud, and a 16" DeltaPag brushless pull fan kit with their controller. This combo runs about 190 degrees. I don't have anything in front of the radiator and no A/C. My engine is a mild street build [471 HP on the dyno]. It is a 363 Dart block with Trickflow aluminum heads. I always use non-ethanol premium gas. There is about 3/8" between the fan hub and the pulley on my serpentine belt system that uses a Ford Racing water pump. I don't like to hear about your engine pinging - try premium gas and maybe reduce the timing [I think too much advance will in itself make it run hotter]. As for the temperature, the radiator guys always say if it isn't puking, it's usually OK. Also, maybe test your temp gauge. Dave

[Luva65wagon]

With Dennis' indication of "running odd" when it gets hot, it's probably getting hot. You could start the car (running with Don's comment about the thermostat) with the radiator cap off and get the engine to temp and make sure there is water flow through the radiator. It should be visible. Also, make sure your lower hose has a spring in it so it doesn't collapse.

I agree also with Dave when I read about the ping, but a hot motor will ping as well. Could be too advanced, which will cause a ping (with today's gas especially), but so with a more than too hot engine.

It is sort of a misnomer that anything over 180 degrees is overheating. Motor wear and such decreases with higher temps, so as Dave indicated "if it ain't spewing, it's probably not overheating..." but when the engine behaves hot, it doesn't necessarily have to break the seals to do so.

You have lots of things to check without changing a thing as of yet, just gotta step through them.

[dennis mcgeough]

Thanks Dave for your thoughts. My mechanic adjusts the carb here and there depending on the symptoms I tell him about. I Know the temp is getting up in the 220s where the water comes back into the radiator. We've played with the timing also. I run Chevron high test only. I really appreciate all who have responded to my overheating problem.

[dennis mcgeough]

Hi dhbfaster, You've added a couple more questions worth looking into. The thermostat was my first questions but apparently tested and ruled out, the same with the water pump, but worth another look. The hoses were checked and are ok. The temp is highest by the water return at 224. The cylinder heat check I don't think has been mentioned but wouldn't there be more significant symptoms showing up? Thanks again. I will report if and when the issues get resolved.

[dennis mcgeough]

Luva65, thanks for your input. I'v got more things to have checked out now. Hopefully they will reveal something definitive.

[Ilvmygt]

I didn't see anyone talk about the "weather strip" that runs across the top of the radiator support. When I first got my Falcon I was talking with a long time Falcon Sprint owner. He cautioned me about the importance of that weather strip. He claimed (based on experience) that if the weather striping is not in place it allows the air flow to go between the radiator support and hood. When is place the air is forced to go through the radiator. I do see that if in place it would force more air through the radiator and Ford must have put it there for a reason since it cost them money. If the weather stripping is missing you might consider putting some type of stripping across the top of the radiator support to seal it off from the hood to see if it makes any difference.



Dennis, you don't state if you are using a stock gauge or aftermarket or which thermostat. I just got my 302 running with a 195 degree thermostat. After it warms up it runs mid scale on the stock gauge.


Frank

[Luva65wagon]

Frank - you might be interested to know, or consider, that the top of core support seal was a 6-cyl addition and not (all) the V8 cars. I see some images on-line with them on Sprints with V8's, but images of them on other V8 cars can't be assumed to have been factory - seals or V8's. I doubt they were ever removed when 80% of the Falcons with V8's had their 6 pulled to go V8.

Not sure the thinking on this seal was since I've seen them on some V8 cars (survivor cars), but not all, but they were on all the 6 cyl cars I've looked at. I had the same understanding as you've provided when I've replaced a few of these seals. So I did a little research on them 20-something years ago. I tend to agree with the notion of sealing off the front to make sure air is forced into the radiator, but there is also a notion that at speed you feed cooler air up top to evacuate stalled hot air from the engine bay. Most new cars today there is no air entering the engine compartment but through the radiator or through an air filter feed. Falcons didn't come close to being very well sealed off up front - even with this top seal.

Just something to chew on.

[dennis mcgeough]

From what I understand, the thermostat and the temp gauge don't communicate accurately with each other. Things are kind of on hold for now until I can raise some more money Once I get the new upgraded installed I'll see what affects it has and report back. Thanks for everybody's interest and feedback.