63 Futura 'Vert, It Begins With Many Questions

[Millennial Falcon]

New to the forums and Falcon ownership.
I always admired from afar, but now I am the proud owner of a 63 Futura convertible with bucket seats and the 170 special.
I told myself that I would not buy a project car. But then, ifyou’re like me, you see what you can afford and what you can find locally and you realize quickly that you’re not getting a show car.
I feel good about the purchase so far. I started out telling myself I wanted to keep this car all original so I could go to shows and stand a chance at placing. Now I feel like I just want it to stay complete, run well,and drive safely.
My father in-law saw the car, and being a big horsepower mustang guy, he of course wants me to do a V8 swap. After doing some research, I don't feel like my chances are very good of locating all the parts needed for that swap, at least not very affordably. Am I wrong in this assumption? I read that the 63-1/2 made the V8 swap easier, Is there a method for determining if a Falcon is a 63 or a 63-1/2?
Another option is a 200 inline from a 68 mustang that I could possibly rebuild. I have no information on the age and use of this motor, I also will likely never have the money to do the Australian aluminum head. Would this swap be worth doing?
Also, I am struggling to find anyone that has done the Wilwood 4-lug disc brake kit on a falcon, anyone heard anything about it? Am I nuts for wanting to keep the 4-lug setup and just put on some Scott Drake 15x6 wheels? I know everyone will say to go 5-lug and be happy with the better selection of wheels, but it seems like a bigger undertaking than I really want to get into. (remember, I’m still telling myself this is not a project car!)

[Luva65wagon]

Matt,

If it's a convertible, it's going to be a later 1/2 year. They did the convertible when the did the hardtop 63 1/2, so that gives you (as I recall) torque boxes up front just like a V8 car had. All hardtops/verts got them, whether V8 or not.

As for 8 or not to 8, you'd be changing all the running gear and front suspension bits. Best donor car is a 65 V8 Falcon as it's a direct bolt-in. I was fortunate to get all I needed - including rims with new tires - for $400 when I built my Ranchero, but that was being in the right spot at the right time. Unlikely to get that sort of a deal unless you can find a person selling the whole car for dirt cheap. 4-door cars are least desirable and more often cheaper to buy if you can find one with the V8 - and complete.

Scarebird is probably a better route to go with doing disc brakes on your bird. We (as a club) did the R&D install for them a decade ago and it's a sound kit - and they use all off the shelf parts, so when something fails you're not at the mercy of some expensive aftermarket source. Just go to the local parts house. Just Google "Scarebird" and you'll get to their web site.

If it were me I'd keep the 6 until you get the vision for what you want to do. You'll ultimately grow into the car and see how easy it is to work on and want to make some mods along the way. Just be careful not to chew off more than you can swallow and end up with a car up on blocks forever, which is the main reason folks loose interest and never finish them.

Post some pics when you get a chance. We'd love to get some new project pics to look at.

[Millennial Falcon]

Thanks so much for the Scarebird recommendation Roger!
That looks perfect, but it will put me in a bad position also. I noticed the 4-lug kit will not allow my original wheels to fit. Going to 5-lug will expand my wheel options, but then I’m into finding the right rear end to match.
Because i have learned my lesson in the past with temporary hold-over purchases, i like to buy what i plan to use for good. Buying new wheels and tires will easily eat up $1k of my budget, almost half.
Im thinking now after some research that i should first tackle the most unsafe component in my Falcon, the brake master cylinder.
AutoKrafters has a bolt on kit to install a brake booster and a new master with dual reservoirs for about $400. Ive read that it should be a pretty good upgrade even with drums, and a proportioning valve will allow me to upgrade to the Scarebird discs when i want.
What do you think, should i buy new wheels? Going to discs will force me into it anyway. I’m just concerned about blowing most of my budget going to disc brakes and then having little left for everything else that might go wrong down the road.
BTW, I’ve got about $2400 to spend on ensuring its road trip worthy, seems like a tall order. She hesitates and sometimes stalls off the line, but otherwise runs fine. Any ideas on what i should focus on?

[Luva65wagon]

Stock 14" rims will fit the Scarebird setup, but not the 13" rims. I had minor fitment issues even with 14" rims, but I suspect it was probably the different caliper manufacturer variations to cause that. It was an easy fix. There is a few threads here on the subject if you just search "scarebird" in the search tool. We did the R&D "test fit" for them on the very first Falcon setup (the car we did is still used on their site and probably their install instructions), so we documented it here pretty well. I then did it on my (then) station wagon, so you'll see in that thread a few changes I made; namely, adding splash plates.

There are other 4-lug rims out there, but your choices rise considerably with the 5-lug rims. If you need tires, then you may want rims while you're at it. That's a tough one to direct someones choice on.

I agree with where you went with doing what is "really" needed to get the car safe and comfortable to drive with all the brainless cars out there. A Falcon doesn't allow you much opportunity to go brainless while driving, so a safe car and defensive driving habit is pretty much mandatory. We offer to members of the club the install labor to go to dual master cylinder (you supply the parts, and maybe the space to do the work - but sometimes one of our spaces). Not sure you need to go full power brakes with the 6, but the dual M/C is a simple add and adds the safety. The original 6-cyl brakes are pretty small in grand scheme of things, but rebuilt and all they've stopped these cars for 60 years.

As for the hesitation, the carburetor may need a rebuild, or someone put the wrong carburetor on. These engines came with a pretty funky distributor advance thing called "Load-O-Matic" (you can google that to learn more) and uses only a vacuum advance on the distributor to operate any timing advance. For this feature to work you MUST have a carburetor with this circuit and the vacuum diaphragm on the distributor has to function. The distributor is easy to test by pulling a vacuum on the diaphragm to see if the plate inside (with the points) move and hold as you suck, but you'd probably just want to snap a picture of your carburetor so we can see what you have for the fastest support on that. You'd be surprised how many early 6 cylinder cars are driving around with no advance circuit at all due to just having the wrong carburetor on it.

Lots to digest, I know, but you can get a lot of miles on that $2400 if you proceed carefully and with some knowledge of some tidbits.

[Millennial Falcon]

Im really leaning towards the 4-lug scarebird and a dual MC now.
I found some wheels that might work; U.S. Wheel 52 Series Chrome Smoothie Wheels 52-5608.
Theyre a 15x6 with 3-5/8"Backspacing, but no matter how I searched it, I just couldn't confirm for sure they will fit. Anyone see a glaring issue?

I will have pics of the motor posted when I get off work.
I really appreciate the help in getting this shopping list going. No expensive mistakes!

[Millennial Falcon]

So, here is the carb and distributor.
703770387039
I hope these are close enough to get the info needed.

I will post pics of the rest of the Falcon once we get a decent day to take it out.
Of course i bought it in the winter, a toy i cant play with.

[Luva65wagon]

So it is a manual choke Autolite 1100 WITH the correct Load-O-Matic circuit. So that is good. From the exterior it doesn't look too grimy, so do this quick accelerator pump test. Run the car a minute at most (just to make sure the float level in the carburetor is reached) and before it gets too hot to mess with turn the motor off, go out and look down the throat of the carburetor (eye protection - choke fully open - motor OFF) and pump the gas linkage manually from under the hood while looking down the carburetor. You should see a reasonable amount of fuel getting pumped down the throat of the carburetor. If you don't see it, or it is minimal, then the accelerator pump diaphragm (the one on the drivers side of the carburetor) isn't doing what it's supposed to. Could be a few things if that's the case, but if you see that linkage is operating that diaphragm as well, then a rebuild is in its future. They are pretty simple to rebuild if the core is sound. If it pumps fuel well, then move onto the distributor advance.

Take the distributor cap and rotor off and check to see if the advance diaphragm is functioning. To do this open up the vacuum line leading to the vacuum advance (you have a ~2in. splice of hose just in front of the carburetor on the metal vacuum line that hopefully gives you a suction point). Put a small extended piece of hose on the distributor side of that metal line and while someone is watching the points plate in the distributor suck on the hose leading down to the distributor and see if the points plate moves when you suck on the hose. You should also be able to suck and plug off the line with your tongue and the plate should stay put until you release the vacuum. If you have a hand vacuum pump, you can use that too. If you seem to be able to suck air through that tube, then the diaphragm is bad. If there is a vacuum on the line and the plate doesn't move with suction, see if you can move it by hand but pushing/pulling the little arm on the point plate towards the vacuum diaphragm. It should move easily and may just need some help and then some cleaning/lube to get it freed up.

Alternatively, if all this sounds sucky, you can hook up a timing light with all the vacuum hoses connected and watch the timing mark on the front of the motor as you rev up the motor. The timing marks should move more advanced as you rev up. The Load-O-Matic stuff isn't as easy to check this way, since the engine won't be under any load, but it should move the marks.

Hopefully some part of this made sense.

[Millennial Falcon]

I got ahold of Scarebird and they don’t sound the least bit interested in helping me figure out their kit. I don’t really feel good about buying their stuff anymore.

I think ill just keep digging on which MC to buy and install that, seems like the best thing i can do with my time and money for now.

*edit- It appears i should have looked closer at my reply. There was an attachment that went into great detail about the process of installing these parts. When read thoroughly, a list of needed and recommended parts will start to emerge, along with a list of confirmed rotors and calipers. Everything i was looking for!
By trade i am a nuclear reactor mechanic, so a mechanic in the loosest sense of the word. I must have up to date references, drawings, authorization forms, and a reason to not milk it before i can even turn a wrench!
My apologies to Mark from Scarebird, if he’s on here.

Roger, i really appreciate your help in this. Your suggestions are very helpful and yet you have no obligation, thank you so much.

[Luva65wagon]

Hey, I'm just glad they're still the service focused business they were last I worked with them. I doubt Mark would be here, but you never know who's lurking about.

[MacDee]

The guy who owned the Falcon that had the first Scarebird four-lug Falcon install... still lurks.
Alas, he doesn't own a Falcon anymore. :(

[Luva65wagon]

Alas the guy who had the second (in the club) Scarebird install and then had the first, doesn't have the first or the second cars anymore... and still lurks around here. :)

Gary, good to hear from you. Hope y'all are doing well!

[Millennial Falcon]

Hi Gary!
Any chance you have any helpful hints to creating my shopping list?
Id love to hear from someone that’s been through it what to buy.
I picture myself telling my father in-law, ‘I’m just waiting for another part’ two months into tying up his lift all summer.

[Luva65wagon]

Though it was Gary's 63 Hardtop used as the initial installation of the Scarebird 4-lug setup, it was mostly installed by me that day. We had a good sized group there doing things like master cylinder swap and other removal of things, but the install of the Scarebird bits was "delegated" to me (or maybe I just took it over - I tend to do that sort of thing). I then, at a later date, did the same install on my then 65 Tudor station wagon. There are threads on this forum detailing most, if not all, of this work.

Gary had procured a pair of hubs to have them machined down to fit into rotors, which has to be done. I had access to a machine shop at work at the time and got his old hubs when all was said and done with his and so I had those machined and ready for my swap. I know they offer these hubs now, so if you don't have access to a shop to machine yours, then you might want to consider this option.

I added splash shields scavenged off an old square-body Volvo since there is no provision for this in the kit or instructions, but old Falcons and greasy ball joints etc. told be the shields would make sense ; regardless the recommendation on Scarebird's site that they are not necessary. So take that as you may. I've attached pictures of my install, but Gary's (and mine) are also in the wayback search on this forum if you search Scarebird.

[MacDee]

Yeah, Roger did most of the work.
My contribution consisted of going down to Les Schwab and buying a new set of 14-inch whitewalls, and swapping the center Falcon "knock-offs" from the 13-inch "wire" wheel covers over to the 14-inch "wire" wheel covers salvaged from a Galaxie.
The only issue we had was that the new longer wheel studs were a loose fit in the hubs. We... actually Mark from Scarebird... ended up just gluing them in with J-B Weld. I think this is why Mark offers new hubs now.

[Millennial Falcon]

It appears Scarebird no longer carries the hubs, though i could be wrong.
I should be able to get my hubs machined no problem, so i think I’m good there.
However, I cant decide on new studs or reaming the rotors. Reaming is easier, but I’d hate to waste time tearing it all back down if it turns out i need wheel spacers. (And then potentially my reamed rotors are no bueno for this setup anymore? Not sure.)

The wheels I’m looking at are 15x6 and have a 3-3/4” backspace. I plan to install 205/60-15s with an OD of 24.7”.
Any thoughts on if these will fit? Seems more mild than a lot of setups I’ve seen people pull off without mods.

Ive got a feeling this little bird will be stuck on a lift for a while as i make sure piece by piece it all fits, might just hold off till the summer is over.

Update: I have inspected the distributor advance as described. Utilizing a vacuum pump i attempted to draw a vacuum on the line to the distributor. The distributor does advance, however it will not hold a vacuum. I placed a ‘T’ fitting and gauge on it and ran the motor. It did not move the needle a noticeable amount, yet the motor did change idle when the vacuum line was left open to atmosphere. Any thoughts?

[Millennial Falcon]

Major change to my plans, sort of.
My father in-law has decided to gift me a very nice 302 with about $5k into it. No miles, balanced, blueprinted, ported, and lots more. Kinda hard to pass that up, though far more horsepower than I need. I must tread carefully.
Now i plan to sell my fox-body Mustang and fully fund a V8 swap for the Falcon! Same goals though, reliability and safety.


I have priced out most of the steering and suspension parts for this new off FalconParts.com Here is what i have so far:
-‘65 V8 Left and Right Spindles....................................$400 (ouch!)
-‘63 Adjustable Strut Rods 2ea.....................................$118 (optional, UCA Kit)
-‘63 Strut Rod Bushings.......................................... .....$50
-‘65 V8 Under Engine Brace..........................................$70
-‘65 V8 Manual Steering Center Link.............................$140
-‘65 V8 Inner & Outer Tie Rod Ends 2ea.........................$102
-‘65 V8 Tie Rod Adjusting Sleeves 2ea.............................$19
-‘65 V8 Idler Arm............................................... ..........$48
-‘65 V8 Idler Arm Bracket........................................... ...$35
-‘65 V8 Pitman Arm............................................... .......$68
-‘65 V8 Front Axle Nut Kits 2ea......................................$22
-‘65 V8 Right & Left Engine Mount Rubber........................$32
-‘65 V8 Intermediate Mount Brackets..............................$50
-65 V8 Aluminum Frame Mounts...................................$140
-Front Coil Spring Insulators (mine are absolutely shot)....$10


The Scarebird setup will be upgraded to the 15” wheel disc brakes to go on the V8 hubs:
-Scarebird PNY M30 Kit............................................... .$177
-‘68 Mustang Rotors............................................ ........$206
-‘68 Mustang Bearings Inner & Outer..............................$54
-‘68 Mustang Front Wheel Seals 2ea...............................$15
-‘79 Eldorado Left & Right Brake Hoses...........................$40
-‘90 Celebrity Left & Right Calipers.................................$60
-‘90 Celebrity Brake Pads.............................................. $30
-‘90 Celebrity Banjo Bolts Front 2ea...............................$15
-‘74 Maverick Master Cylinder........................................$7 9


Optional (sketchy things I’m not sure of):
-‘65 V8 Monte Carlo Bar............................................... ..$60
I may need to see after the motor swap if this will fit.
-SPC Performance Adjustable Upper Control Arm 94215 w/Adjustable Strut Rod 2ea.........................................$590
These are listed as fitting a ‘65 Falcon, I believe this is only because of the strut rods and should work with the rest of the ‘65 steering components on a ‘63. I cant find any reviews or evidence of these parts on a Falcon, seems like a roll of the dice.
I would like to think this is a nice upgrade if I replace the control arms.


Which brings me to my new quandary, should I replace my control arms? The cost of new bushings and ball joints seem to make new but cheap control arms the more cost effective method. It also seems pointless to have all these new components and not refresh them. However, I am concerned about the quality of these affordable control arms. Anyone have some experiences with the new (likely Chinese made) stuff? Should I just buy the expensive name-brand stuff or purchase some adjustable units for roughly the same price?


I’m joining this group to hear the advice of my peers, so please, let me hear all criticism and recommendations. Thanks guys! (Once I get my national club membership confirmed you all will have a very annoying little bro as a new paid member):)

[Luva65wagon]

That's a big list when you're having to replace everything, but other than shopping around to maybe get the best prices - you gotta do what you gotta do. Been there done that.

As for the questionable things, I've got aftermarket Monte Carlo bar as well as export braces (shock tower braces) on mine and the underbelly bar. Stiffened it up well since I don't have torque boxes, which I "think" 63 hardtops and convertibles got whether a 6 or V8 was installed. Also installed subframe connectors while I was at it. Not sure how the convertible underbody accommodates those. I know you're supposed to have a strength plate between the left and right rear frame rails due to a lack of roof (keeps the car from folding in the middle), but I think it's clear from front to rear outboard of these for subframe connectors.

You can replace bushings and ball joints, but if you get the pricier ones, they're pretty good. I got a set of upper and lower in a massive "selling all my Falcon parts" purchase I did on Craigslist when I was building the Ranchero, but I had to replace them when the rubber in all of the ball joints split out in short order. Best guess is they had been sitting around a long time and the rubber rotted. I bought my new set from National Parts Depot for a 65 Mustang, since everything is the same except the center-link - and Mustang vendors pricing is much better than Falcon parts vendors for the same parts... usually. Far more competition. At the time I did, I also replaced the spring perches with a higher-end version that wasn't the roller bearing type, but wasn't the fixed position type that are most common. One of the most common causes of the "Ford squeak" comes from the spring perch.

A club member out there (shows up every other year or so...) had some adjustable struts he was trying to sell. Not sure why he removed them at this point. Have not looked at the adjustable upper control arms, but will just to keep myself aware.

[Ilvmygt]

Have you considered the Mustang 2 front suspension? TCI's is about 3K. You remove the existing suspension and weld on a new substructure, components including disk brakes, rack and pinion steering (including power rack) and sway bar. There is significant amount of work but modernizes it.

[Jeff W]

Hi Matt, Redfaken and I recently finished installing inexpensive, no name upper and lower control arms in my 63. I haven’t driven more than ten miles yet (waiting for a shop alignment) but the quality looked fine. My only observation was the paint was very thin and will probably need some attention if it starts to surface rust in the future. I could have prepped and repainted before installation but avoided the “Roger Syndrome” (Scope Creep ... While I’m at it)

I bought them from a club member that went a new direction so I can’t list a source or brand to help.

We did perform the zero cost Arning Drop. Other members have noticed a handling improvement with this. I have Pbrowns template and drill bit, I’m sure he would be willing to loan out if you want to go that direction.

[Luva65wagon]

i could have prepped and repainted before installation but avoided the “roger syndrome” (scope creep ... While i’m at it)

AKA "The Curse of WIAI™"

[dhbfaster]

How's the progress Matt?

[Millennial Falcon]

Well, my father in-law is a big fan of the Mustang II swap, and he is starting to sway me. I’m a bit concerned about the welding that needs to be accomplished, its quite the undertaking compared to the straight V8 parts swap. But damn, the benefits are huge when coupled with about 400hp.

Right now I’m going to start on assembling the motor and see how that goes. 7072
Any major work will wait until fall starts, and I still need to get the Mustang sold.

I might not get much out of the Falcon this summer though, there is an oil leak getting progressively worse that I’m pretty sure is the rear main seal.

[Luva65wagon]

You know, if I had it to do again - and had the extra funds I usta have (building a garage was expensive) - and knew then where it was heading with a 347/T5 - I'd do something to make more space in there. I've done a lot of finessing to try and get things to clear, but the header clearance is really much tighter now than it [even] was with the 289, and they are the same size block, just different heads. So think long and hard. You have a half-dozen kit choices and seems everyone has their favorite. I've got no real opinion since I can't go there, so have not done the research.

Post pics of the engine build as you go!

[SmithKid]

Kinda in Roger's position regarding funds and time, and pretty sure that if I could turn back the clock, I'd have opted for a Must II type front end too (which would have improved both ride and handling). Back then, I added new components (control arms, rod ends, orig style wrecking yard discs from a club member, etc.) and added original style PS that I've never been real happy with. Now it's WAY too late and I'm not going there again.

[Ilvmygt]

Matt, I am in Port Orchard you are more then welcome to come over to see what progress I have made on my Falcon. I am installing a Mustang II front end and a 4 link rear end. PM me if you are interested.
Frank

[Millennial Falcon]

Sorry to be away from the forums for so long. The project is still very much happening, but family events have taken precedent.

I lost my grandmother recently. She was one of those rare people that embodied the concept of unconditional love. I will never forget her knowing smile and straight forward honest response that always belied her true age. She taught me so much about life while taking me berry picking and baking pies. I can still clearly remember her teaching me to drive in her 90s Honda Civic after I had scared my mother out of the task. I loved my grandmother very much and I thank everyone for their understanding

The reason I bring this up is that she left me one final gift. It’s safe to say now that I have no financial restrictions on my project anymore, no reason to hold back. I’d never thought in my life I’d be so moved by money, but here I am.

This falcon will be for grandma.

Cheers mates, here’s to the memory of all those who made us who we are.

[Luva65wagon]

Sorry for your loss there Matt. I know it is hard... regardless of the occasional inheritance of substance.

I was just having a conversation this weekend at an estate sale company (store front business in Kirkland) prompted from having found an old Plymouth hub cab just like the ones my dad had on his '53 Plymouth Cranbrook. He so badly wanted me to take that car and save it. He'd parked it 20 years before asking me to take it, but (though I looked into it) concluded it would have been a horrific task to restore. They're not exactly packing the junk yards with these. He understood and ended up giving it to a friend of a friend who said he'd bring it back to life. He just didn't get the memo it would be turned into a hot rod. My dad wasn't happy about that. My mom, on the other hand has already signed her 1980 Mercury Capri RS over to me - long before she was no longer able to drive it, but I struggle to figure out what/how/when I will do with it. It's in awesome shape, sitting in her garage, but it's not a highly sought after vehicle. I've been force of late, due to her nearing the need of outside help, to really start thinking about what to do with it when she has to move. Anyway, back to the conversation... We were both lamenting, this store owner and I, why neither of our parents had a 1969 Mach 1 or something to hand down. I offered to her the upside in my case, though; I lost my grand parents a long time ago and my father in the past few years, my mother is still hanging in there. Though none of them had the wherewithal to amass wealth worth passing down, I am who I am today with traits and skills I learned from both of my parents. All my mechanical/electronic/musical skills and talents from my father and artistic/writing abilities from my mother. Both excelled in these, and I'm thankful I have a mere fraction of their talents and abilities.

[Millennial Falcon]

I'm back!
I had a whole lot of life stuff going on, something about a pandemic, and now i emerge from my hibernation ready to do stuff.

So, updates on the project.
I have the Scarebird 4-lug kit with the custom hubs mocked up on the car. I say mocked up and not installed because of some interesting issues found.
The spindle fasteners Scarebird intended me to reuse, at least on my car, are not standard bolts. The head is raw, containing only one flat. There isnt a socket in the world that would turn those things, so i had to buy new. The only options for matching those fine thread fasteners that i found are grade 5. Anyone feel that is a bad idea, should i shoot for grade 8 coarse thread?
Also, and this one really gets me, the lug nuts are removing paint from the ID of my new wheels. The lug nuts and wheels fit fine together when not on the hub. I have also tested my wheels on the original hubs and the rears and found no clearance issues at all installing the lug nuts.
I could be totally screwed up with this, but i really think the Scarebird bolt pattern may be off by a small amount. I plan to disassemble the entire setup and take my hubs to work in order to properly measure the DBC on those things, I don't really know what i hope to find.
Other than that stuff i have all new stainless brake lines going in, a complete rebuild of the rear drums started (have to fix grooves on backing plate), and a new disc/drum MC with combo prop valve. I am curious though what most of you round-body guys did for the brake light switch.

Also, I can add a new set to the list of off the shelf wheels that can be installed directly on our 4-lug vehicles with no modifications! Bonus, they also clear the calipers for the Scarebird setup. They are the Legendary Scott Drake Magnum 400's in 15x6in. I wrapped them in 195 60R15 BF Goodrich Radial T/A's with white letters facing obviously, and they look amazing. The extra meat is all outboard on these, so no clearance issues with suspension components. They sport about 1 inch of clearance with the rear fender not rolled. I will post some pics when its all done and i can clean the blue crap off the tires.

I am eagerly awaiting news from Matt Cox of Vintage Inlines about when i can purchase the new aluminum inline head which should start production any day now. I will hold off on all other purchases for the entire 200 rebuild till i have that head in hand. If anyone is interested in the precise numbers i plan to achieve and the machine work to be done let me know.

Im getting very close to pulling the trigger on the suspension components and it should be fun! I am leaning heavily toward the Coilover kit and export bar from Street or Track for the front, and the Bilstein shocks they carry for the rear. Ill source the leaf springs from GeneralSpringKC because the prices through Eaton, my gawd! I will supplement all that fancy stuff with Hellwig 1.125 Front and 0.75 Rear sway bars.
One major issue i have come to, and i'm sure some of you have already guessed it, is the leaf spring front shackle. If you remember, my 63 is a convertible. That means i won the rare parts lottery and have near zero options. It sounds like the best i can do is pull the leaf springs off my Falcon and hope for the best with their condition.
Falconparts.com was less than helpful to a loyal customer so now i prostrate myself before my peers and beg. Does anyone know what i should do? Does anyone know what the differences that make it unique even are?

*Edit- Guess i forgot to mention the biggest development, the V8 is a big no go, turns out my Father-in-law does not know what he is doing building engines. Im going to CORRECTLY build an awesome 200 and never look back!

[Luva65wagon]

Matt, missed this. Using my phone to reply is tough, and lately I'm a bit hobbled with a sprained ankle to get downstairs to the computer.

Having done the first-ever Scarebird swap on the same car, ironically, that got the VI head, I know it well. Would laugh to find out whether they are still using photos of my hands and that car in their instructions. LOL. Anyway, the bolts you refer to are standard spindle bolts. They were intended, when new, to butt up against the grease shield and with an impact draw up tight with no need for a wrench or socket to hold the head. Getting them apart 50 years later, not so easy. They are Grade 8 and your replacement bolts should be as well. I don't know of any reason you can't get standard 3/8-24 grade 8 bolts and the correct style lock nuts. Tacoma Screw should have them. I've bought these from them before.

Kind of lost you regarding the lug nut paint issue. Maybe you'll figure it out. Pictures help.

I sort of like the 65 Falcon brake light, but it's a pain to add. The easiest switch to use is a 70's F100 switch and mount it by removing the rebound bumper stop up under the dash.

What is the rear leaf issue exactly? I've worked on a couple, but not aware the issue here.

Sounds like a pretty impressive list of to-dos. Will be fun to watch as you proceed.

[Millennial Falcon]

What is the rear leaf issue exactly? I've worked on a couple, but not aware the issue here.



Everywhere i have shopped so far has not had the front shackle to the leaf springs for specifically 63 convertible. Ive searched the issue on several forums and not found much helpful info. My research really is limited to sellers websites unfortunately, but they all seem adamant that the standard shackle will not work for the convertible, and the shackle for the heavy duty springs is not suitable. Also, i say shackle but its really just a bolt, fancy washer, and bushings.

Some leaf spring sellers even show a lower spring rate for the convertible leafs even though they look the same as the 6 leaf heavy duty springs for the ranchero. Hard to see Ford making so many variations of that part but who knows. It has been quite frustrating trying to find answers.

I should finish the Scarebird install and the rear drums this weekend if all goes well. I expect the new plumbing to be a long and painful experience. Should be fun!

[Jeff W]

When I did my convertible it was just that, I fancy shouldered bolt, more fancy washer and a new bush.

[Luva65wagon]

Matt,

When you get those bolts out, if you need to replace them and can't find them already made - I have little doubt I could machine you up a pair. I don't think they're hardened since they don't need to be, but if they are, I'll machine them out of something I can harden. So, putting that out there so you can relax a bit on that.

[MacDee]

I am eagerly awaiting news from Matt Cox of Vintage Inlines about when i can purchase the new aluminum inline head which should start production any day now.

You can find a couple of strings on this forum regarding the problems I and/or Roger had with "Freddie". Freddie had the Classic Inlines aluminum head and manifold.
For the record, crazy as this sounds, I now TRULY believe Freddie's root problem was air "leaching" through the walls of the intake manifold. If you get this setup, SEAL the intake manifold surfaces with either paint, a lot, on the outside, and/or Por-15 gas tank sealant on the inside of the manifold.

Good luck!

[Millennial Falcon]

Thanks Roger, i really appreciate the offer!

I feel like i should address the rear end while im at it. Yes i know, scope creep.

My issue is the grooves in the backing plate. I cant find info on what the dimensions should be for those pads, and they cant be weld fixed in place. I tried to smooth them out but am now concerned i may have changed height and angled the surface slightly with my 'fix'. This seems like a lot of work to go through for a rear end that may be very worn out anyway.

Ive heard rumors of a Maverick 8in 4-lug rear end that exists, should i start hunting for one of those? Ive also heard rumors that parts for my current rear end are impossible to get. On top of that, if i switch from auto to T5 i would want to switch to the 2.79 gearing right?

I need your mentorship Roger, what would you do?

[Luva65wagon]

Matt,

There is very little available for the 7 1/4" Falcon rear-end on parts shelves. There are a lot of them out there because they get swapped out a lot, but age and wear would be possible with them as well.

We've (almost) all done a Maverick rear-end swap, I think. Way more parts and pieces available for it than the Falcon rear-end. They're out there and most will be 2.79 open gears when you find them. Whether that's what you'll want to keep is iffy. Even with my 5 speed and a V8 I appreciate the slightly lower rear gear. Way more pep and go. Mid 3's (I have 3.45 and like them). 2.79's were when there wasn't many cars with overdrive and they also wanted maximum freeway speed versus engine RPM for fuel economy. The 5-speed offers the overdrive. So, based upon your goal, I think this is the direction to go. You can always swap the 3rd member later if you can find a rear end still. If you stick with a C4, 2.79 would be a good choice, but it'll still be a slug around town.

[Millennial Falcon]

When I did my convertible it was just that, I fancy shouldered bolt, more fancy washer and a new bush.

So Jeff, do you think i could get away with buying the standard shackle and having Roger work his magic?
I guess im asking what exactly needed modification, what parts should i start with and then modify?


As for the rest of the project, the more i look into it i think i will go with Eaton springs despite the cost. i would rather get the spring rate correct so that the shocks match and this all turns out like i expect. Any deviation from stock seems to bring unintended consequences that i wont enjoy much, and would require a more well thought out plan for specific performance gains.

That thought goes out the window of course with the Street or Track front suspension because i am telling myself that the kit will eliminate the re-engineering and decision making on my part. Stay tuned i suppose, it should be good for a laugh if anything!

[Millennial Falcon]

What is the narrowest you can build the 8 inch? Im trying to get an idea of how much clearance i can gain for the rear wheels.

I could also use some recommendations for who to take the rear end to for this. I've noticed that 4-lug axles for the 8 inch don't seem to be available, so i imagine shortening up the rear end will not be easy or cheap. If anyone has experience with this project please let me know how things went.

I am in the market for a 4-lug 8 inch rear end in case anyone spots one!

[Jeff W]

Hi Matt, sadly it was 10 years ago and I don’t remember what the bolt looked like. I was able to purchase it from one of the normal Falcon suppliers.
I found my 4-lug 8” rear at Pick-n-pull in Lynnwood. I think it is 3/4” wider than the little stock guy but people have had luck installing as is. I need to get it clean and painted for installation later this summer. I plan on swapping the backing plates from my wagon as they allow wider shoes. It is the 2.79:1 ratio.

[Millennial Falcon]

Here is the end of this thread, I'm calling it quits already.

No matter how many times i play it out in my head, i just cant bring myself to pull the trigger on this project. Its a tremendous amount of money for me to spend only to feel like I'm halfway there. I simply do not have the garage space to do this work now that my father-in-laws shop is not an option and my back cant really handle the heavy stuff anymore.

I did some soul searching while on vacation and admitted to myself that this will never be a good hobby. Its a job that i either finish or it never drives again. I simply refuse to put myself in a position like that with something i love.

This realization has me feeling quite depressed and I haven't so much as looked at the thing in weeks.

I promise that when the time comes i will sell her to someone that cares and not let it rot in my garage.

[dhbfaster]

(Ignore the question marks…not sure why my iPad keeps doing that.)
Sorry to hear that Matt. I do think most people can easily spend much more than they originally thought in both time and money and it can easily add up. I just looked at mine kind of like a car payment with some spikes in it, but at times it was painful. I probably couldn?t have done it if I had other car payments at the time. And, having a place to work on it is definitely key.
I had an internet business on the side once.it was a grand idea, but bottom line was that I was spending a lot every month as well as time late into the night every day and ultimately found that to really make I would have had to put everything at risk, and in the end I called it quits. It still hurts to think about it, but it was the right decision.
On the other hand, when I first started my car and really started to get into it like you have, I went through a lot and had a lot of frustrations. One thing Jeff said to me one time really stuck. There are no real deadlines in this? (or something like that) He was right. I started to slow down a bit and enjoy the process more and spread out the spending a bit more and eliminated the frustration.
I also couldn?t have done what I did without this club. I had so much help. One day with a few people from the club helping got more done than I could in six months by myself, and that happened several times. Don’t underestimate that part. My car was also my grandfathers and I had a history with it. If I didn?t, I don’t think I would have finished.

[Millennial Falcon]

Well this is embarrassing. Time to give an update on the project I quit on.

Spent many days rereading the inline six book by Cox and Mauer, poring over the old info posts by Classic Inlines, and using online calculators of various kinds. I've gone deep into the weeds with every forum post related to my endeavors and come away far more knowledgeable. I've shopped for and located all the things I hadn't thought of before. I feel ready, but my trigger finger keeps shaking anyway.

The 170 will be replaced with a rebuilt 200 and C4 from a 68 mustang using an '80 200 large log head, all three already in hand and on stand. The head will be milled to get the combustion chambers to 52cc after I match the chambers and clean up the ports and casting as much as possible. All of this hinges on a good magnaflux that I should have done soon.

I have plans to add oversized exhaust valves to the list if I can find the 144ci intake valves. I haven't been looking long, so hopefully they show up soon.

Cam will be the Clay Smith 256/256 110 coupled with the stock 1:1.52 rocker arms. This should be a nice low rpm power band and comfortable ride on the highway with a 2.89 thereabouts rear end. You can’t have everything with your set up and that’s as close as I can come to making it a reasonably good driver and just a touch fun.

Block will be magnafluxed also, but less worried about that one. If it passes and isn't bored over 0.060" already I should be good to go for the zero decking, balancing, new flat top pistons, and ARP fasteners.

I have a gold Holley Sniper 1100 unit with the matching hyperspark distributor, (blue finish, if you care) ignition box, and fuel tank with pump ready to go.

I plan to buy the double timing chain assembly from V.I. Even though the things I read about it make me nervous. Hoping I can make it work.

I am also buying the Scott Drake dual outlet header and hoping the RobbMc 3001 mini starter can allow a good fit if it causes trouble. It should be an enlightening experience. Install with stage 8 locking bolts planned.

I will use the Champion EC251-6 aluminum radiator with a recovery tank. Seems like a good solution for avoiding an electric fan and improving cooling. This will be coupled with a high flow water pump.

Because I am still only human I picked out a few goodies like billet thermostat housing, billet water pump pulley, a polished Powermaster retro 1G 75 amp alternator, and a mustang Sprint 200 air cleaner remake. The engine will be finished in the correct Ford blue with the original valve cover in blue also and the raised lettering stenciled in gold. I'm trying to come up with another hit of gold but I just can't decide. Anyone else with a flair for the sorta flashy?

I tell myself I am waiting to pull the trigger when the head passes magnaflux. Fingers crossed!

[Luva65wagon]

Sounds like it should be a good build. Built a very similar setup last year for and with Jeff for his wagon. He managed to find probably the last, or so it seems, 8" 4-lug rear end and we put that in along with him upgrading to 14" wheels and tires. We had a bit of fun along the way with all the issues I found others had done or things I found wasn't quite right along the way. He went with a Weber 2-barrel instead of fuel injection, which wasn't without a hurdle or three. There were many unexpected and often unprofessional issues we dealt with, so hope you have better luck. He's happy with it, so that's really all that matters.

So, are you building the motor or is someone else building it to your specs?

[Millennial Falcon]

So, are you building the motor or is someone else building it to your specs?

I am pretty hung up on this point. I don't feel it's a good idea to try transporting a full crankshaft assembly around in some pointless effort to save a few bucks.
I intended to do a complete tear down myself. But this idea does concern me, as I might not catch something that the machine shop would and the cam bearings sound like a bear of a task.

I think I know the answer is let the machine shop do the entire short block. I'm just reluctant because I know cost creep will ruin most of my plans.

if anyone has recommendations I would gladly take them.

My father in-law knows 'a guy' to do the head. That so far has been my best lead. My father in-law is also a boisterous man with a tendency to be relentless with arguing opinions. He simply does not acknowledge my plans and my choices already made. At this point I have spent 3 years going over all my options and I know for sure what I want now.

I am sorry for rambling about this, I just feel very alone on this journey. This a wedding cake with no recipe and one shot to get it right. All the bakers before me left bread crumbs but no instructions. Every cake will be just a little bit different. Some will be edible, some not. What will mine be?
I have to admit I am terrified of what comes out of that oven, it scares the crap out of me. I'm just a worrier doing my best.

[Luva65wagon]

Knowing how to do a thing and doing it is usually limited by the cost of the tool to do it. I can do all the things, having done them in a past life, but have no tools to do certain things, so I defer them to those who do.

I have used the same machine shop for over 40 years. The same guy has been there most of them. Even still, I trust myself more than anyone, so when we took this 200 with the 250 head in, and it took months to get it done because we were that far deep in the queue, I scrutinized everything. I found things. Not all related to them, but just, I think, the nature of the beast anymore.

Initially, there was some good things. They found the core plug holes were slightly corroded, so a couple of them were different sizes than the others. So that was interesting, but good on them to address (note the color of them, which was my first clue).

8047

The next thing I discovered was nobody is supplying formed rubber rear-main seals and the gasket set Jeff bought only had the rope seal, which required the pins to keep them from rotating. We since found seals being made (not by FelPro) for about $50 each, I took a V8 seal and used the main cap to determine the length and cut them to length. Worked fine.

8048

I also discovered the machine shop did something not so good. The heads and block were both machined and decked and shaved as needed (250 heads have way larger volume area), when I started eyeing the work, they used some wonky valve spring caps. When I called them on it, he was beside himself apologetic, and made it right, but what if I hadn't noticed and it sucked a valve because of this? The valve spring was almost 1/4" larger than the cap!?

8049

He had to do a lot of hunting, but finally found the correct caps.

8050

So were making headway. I get things going together and install the cam and find true TDC to degree the cam... and there is no way using a stock cam gear set I can come close the what Clay Smith wanted us to use. Had to buy a special cam gear set where I could change the rotation of the crank gear 4 degrees and offset one tooth on the cam gear to get the thing set. Had I set dot-to-dot, it would have been 17 degrees out. Nobody took claim where that could have come from. Clay Smith said "Not us" and I didn't call Clowes or couldn't call Ford. But the degree wheel doesn't lie. My first proof of the importance of this step.

8051 8052

(Sorry the pics are sideways. Blaming the forum for that)

Then we discovered a shim washer gone MIA, so that sent us searching all over. Found it, but don't lose it.

8053

It's the one behind the cam key pin. Without this washer, the cam gear will lock-up solid.

8054

This is just the start of the build. Had I been a novice, this build would have gone south quickly. So, just putting these things out as examples of the things you might run into. There was more, but it's late. I may share more.

One thing... you mentioned needing flat top pistons, which you will with this combo. 2.3L Ford pistons are exactly the correct diameter, pin location and size. But are flat top.

[Jeff W]

I’ll add my bits to Roger’s list

1) I am the one the lost the spacer during the tear down. Shocked since I had to tear down two engines to find one usable block… somehow I lost both) ��

2) The 2.3L pistons are only sold in set of 4. Try to get both sets from the same production run for weight consistency.

3) End result, thanks to Roger and Moore Power Engineering (MPE), is smooth and wonderful!

[Millennial Falcon]

Roger and Jeff, thank you for sharing with me. Even the small stories and bits of info go a long way.

Also, I’m sure I am being a bit too dramatic. Everyone I work with has found it pretty funny watching me fret over every detail, and pretty annoying when all I talk about is engines. I have been a mechanic and outside machinist for 18 years now.

I was my shops lead low pressure steam valve mechanic and later became the shop expert on low and high pressure valve tooling. I got there by being constantly unsure that I knew everything and promptly diving back into drawings and manuals to satisfy my lingering doubts before I could ever turn a wrench.

I’m almost ready, just a little more studying and I should have my final numbers for the build on the engine and I will share them here. Also, I have a solution for my rear end that is both satisfying and more than I wanted to pay. But dang it if it’s not just really satisfying.

[Millennial Falcon]

The solution to my rear end is finally coming together save one major snag.

The rear end will be an 8 inch built by Alan at 8and9InchFordRears.com. It will be built with custom width obviously, and most important for me it maintains my bolt pattern.
The brakes will be the Torino 11 inch provided by QuickPerformance.com and will also be made with my bolt pattern.

My Falcon is also in need of new leaf springs, and GeneralSpringKC.com seems to be a good option for correct convertible springs. I plan to use the 67 Mustang plates that will properly fit the axle housing U-Bolts, but will be 1/2" too wide for the leaf springs. I will make up for this by fabricating saddles from 2" hitch receiver material and welding those to the plates.

This brings me back to a major issue from earlier in this thread, that stupid front bushing specific to the convertible.

It turns out a company called Rare Parts (36129) remade this bushing at one point and I somehow missed it. They are no longer available through any supplier that lists them for sale, so in no way are they an option anymore. I did find the dimensions listed for them though;
Inside Diameter (in): 1/2 Inch
Length (in): 2-3/8 Inch
Outside Diameter (in): 2-1/16 Inch

It is shown as a one-piece common style bushing with an outer sleeve, it does not appear to be the same style of front bushing that I normally see listed for Falcons. I would love to just substitute for another bushing from another vehicle that also had 2" springs, but I cannot find dimensions listed for these and have hit a wall.

I have contacted several companies about custom urethane bushings but have not had any luck.

I thought a while back that my biggest problem would just be the bolt. Ah, the good ol' days.

[Millennial Falcon]

For those following, more solutions have been found and things are moving forward.

The spring plates will be the Mustang 68-70 still, but with holes elongated to allow install on 2" springs and perches. I will cut the ends off the original plates with the 2" hole separation to use like dog bone style washers to keep the Ubolts where they belong and prevent splaying.

The bushing issue has also been solved. I have leaf springs coming from ESPO Springs and Things that I heard about from a YouTube video of a guy changing leafs on his 63 convertible.

Everything but the rear end is ordered, still doing final measurements.

The engine is stripped down and I discovered it has already been bored .030 over which isn’t great. Sourcing the correct pistons for the Tempo is my only option now. Doing a lot of research into cam failure and initial startup for the Sniper unit. I am thinking of setting it up on my running 170 before installing on a fresh motor.