200 with a C4 in a 1961

[Luva65wagon]

Andrew,

I spent a little time, which is rare these days, to look into this and it seems this block used the V8 Bell and low-mount stater, where other 200's used a high mount starter.

Jump to the 200 section here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_straight-six_engine

Other than this little page, I can't find a whole lot more on this block. I did find this forum page where, if you patiently sort though some of the banter, you may learn more.


https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=68983 (https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=68983)

Hope this helps. Sorry I'm not (nor apparently is anyone else) better aware of this block.

[Notar61]

Still trying to get an old 1961 road worthy.

I have what I thought was a 200 straight six out of a 1964 Falcon, but it's actually a big bell Ford 200 out of a 1980 or 1981 Ford Fairmont. So using my old 2 speed Fordomatic tranny isn't going to work.

I guess going the C4 route is the only option. Especially since the old original 170 engine is blown to heck and not rebuild-able.

So what kind of stuff do I need to be thinking about when do this new conversion to the big bell 200/C4 combo? I need any and all info so I don't overlook something. I really need to get this thing back on the road. And I still need to find a donor C4 to work with the 200 engine I have.

Off the top of my head these issues come to mind:

-I'm going to have to cut the driveshaft

-I'll need some kind of rear crossmember support for the C4 (I think there's places that makes these, so I can buy online)

-I'm probably going to need a different pedal/throttle linkage assembly

-I'll maybe need some kind of different approach to the shift linkage (I wanna keep this car a column shifter)

That's what comes to mind currently. Let me know if I should be thinking about any other issues! Any and all info is greatly appreciated!

-Andrew

[Luva65wagon]

Andrew,

You hit on most of it, and will no doubt stumble onto things it is hard to foresee. Get the transmission first, get it mounted up and set into the car with a jack under the transmission extension housing where it would be. You can order C4 Falcon mounts at Falconparts.com.

Go to a driveline shop (Drivelines NW if here in the area) and get the transmission yoke for that transmission. Let them know the original shaft tube diameter. Then you can insert it into the transmission with about 3/4" left to insert (for forward movement as the rear-end travels upward pushing on the shaft as it does) and measure center of yoke to center of yoke front to rear for the correct length. This will get the drivetrain set into place.

At this point the rest should be pretty much the same. You should be able to use the factory throttle linkage, but the kick-down linkage may have to be fabbed as a cross between Lokar/McGyver.

Exhaust will be custom, mostly, but the downtube from the head is pretty common on any car with this motor.

Radiator may be the same, but you'll need to verify whether the outlets are all going the same as the 170. I'm not sure whether they ever used reverse rotation water pumps, but I'm pretty sure you can put all the 170 front bits onto a 200 to keep all those bits the same.

Ignition parts may be newer, but I'd be upgrading those anyway, if I were you. Pretty simple to do and makes for a far more reliable driver.

The shifter linkage on the column will be wrong, but call Falconparts.com and I'm pretty sure they can get you the parts to change these. If not, you'll still be able to hook things up and get things from park to drive - if for now by feel.

Good luck!

[Notar61]

Roger,

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a got a game plan for this whole deal.


I'm tracking down a C4 currently, but I keep seeing a difference in the torque converter sizes. Some had 10 1/4" converters and others had 12" converters. Anyone know what the difference is? Would both work for my application or do I need a C4 that uses a specific sized torque converter?

Thanks!

-Andrew

[Notar61]

Any info on those torque converter sizes?

[Luva65wagon]

Sorry - looking at computer times are few and far between these days.

I'm not 100% sure the differences, but if I was to venture a 99% guess... I'd suspect the smaller to be for the 6-cyl and the larger to be for the V8. But I would'a been wrong. Doing a little searching on the 'net it would appear the C4 on that year Fairmont used a flex plate without starter ring gear. It also calls out a 10.25 converter with starter ring gear attached to it.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1980,fairmont,3.3l+200cid+l6,1127629,transmis sion-automatic,torque+converter,8668

I'm also aware, having just sold a Falcon with a later model 200 with a Classic Inlines head and a C4 behind it, the torque converter was replaced in it (IIRC) 3 times due to failure. And with very low miles on each. Theory goes the stock TC's couldn't handle even a bit more torque. Or were just utter carp. The previous owner finally had a TC built for it custom to handle the torque; by Hughes Performance.

[Notar61]

Roger,

Thanks for the info on the torque converter.

I'm a little confused on what c4 I need that will work with that big bell 200 six I have. Seems that the C4 had quite a bit of iterations and different bellhousings.

Will just about any C4 work that was from the 70s/early 80s? Or do I need one that was specifically mounted to the same engine I have?

I would think a c4 that was mounted to a small block V8 would work just because of the bigger bell that the engine I have has. But I'm not sure.

Any clarification or info would help!

Thanks,
Andrew