Ideal classic (carb) V8 for restomod falcon

[dhbfaster]

Just messing around here with no car to work on, :rain: so dreaming about the next falcon I want to someday add to my collection and looking at what's out there. Since my current falcon is relatively slow...next one needs to be fast, and maybe a two door convertible. I'm seeing some nice 63's out there ready for an engine swap.

I'd love to hear thoughts from you guys about the "ideal" classic (carb) V8 to drop in a falcon. Fast, reliable, and easy to get. Did I say fast? But no big custom work. something that just drops in- by just buying the mounts would be ideal.

And is there a five speed tranny that would match up? Would the rear end also have to be upgraded?:shift:

[pbrown]

The easiest and best option, IMHO, would be a later 5.0 roller/EFI engine with a T5 transmission. Just pull off the EFI intake and other EFI stuff and add your favorite carb and intake manifold.

[BadBird]

What kind of fast? Fast top end, low end? Trouble is, where do you get to go fast? The only place around here that I seem to be able to get on the throttle is at on ramps to the freeway. I did get over a 100 on the freeway between Reno and Carson City, but that is dangerously expensive if caught. My son in law has the Audi sports car and recently got a ticket for going over 100 and it cost more than a grand. Not counting insurance increases I imagine. :bicker:

I am in total in agreement with Pat. For reliability the 302 is the engine. It can be stroked out to 331 or 347 easily and is not too expensive, :WHATTHE: You can get anywhere from 200-2000 horsepower out of those depending on dollars.
For horsepower, the heads are where the money goes and the power come from. Then the intake, and then the carb/injection.
I have duals, but they are not made for horsepower, more for looks. They perform well, but not as good as the big four barrel or injection. Turbo?
The T5 that I installed is absolutely the best investment I put into my car. Next, I really enjoy the E cutouts I installed. Now it sounds as loud as it is fast. Now they are half the price that I paid for my set. Just the kid in me I guess. :3g:Larry

[Luva65wagon]

I can echo what both Pat and Larry said. A roller 302 (5.0 liter) is a drop-in for a 60-65 Falcon. If my 289 in the Ranchero ever goes, that's what I'll be doing. Roller motors also run a lot cooler than flat tappet. A good portion of the heat in a flat tappet motor comes from the friction on the cam. It has taken a lot to get my .060 over 289 to run cool enough.

T5 (5-speed) or any one of the other Tremec 5 or 6 speeds are very available.

As for going fast, I like the feel of just something with power. Even when going from 0-35 MPH. I could easily get into trouble with it, but most new cars can still out-run it. Lila's Kia Optima with its turbo-charged 2.0 liter is rated at 275 HP and really goes if you want it to. So, it's all relative.

[MacDee]

Perhaps off topic... but since flat tappets were mentioned...

If you've got flat tappets, be sure to use ZDDP additive in your oil, or use oil with zinc additive already in it.
All modern engines now use roller tappets. It is so common now that almost all of the oils you see for sale in parts stores do NOT have the kind of friction protection needed for flat tappets! Oil that is appropriate for a flat tappet engine is now hard to find!

[dhbfaster]

Ok, now my ignorance about engines is really coming out :o ...I had to google roller tappet vs flat tappet. Found some stuff real quick but want to look at some actual pics tonight so I can understand it better. It seems to make sense that roller tappets would have much less friction. But do the rollers also wear out?

I take it the falcon 6's are flat tappet?

The break-in oil I have in the car now has ZDDP. I think it's (the oil) been in there about a year...and so, I suppose when I get home I should actually change it...even though I only have 35 miles on it? Is that what you guys would do, or would you wait another year?

Meanwhile, I'm supposed to use the break-in oil for 500 miles...which may take a while at the rate I'm going. (I hope to get 100 miles in during a June visit.) After that, what oil with ZDDP are you guys actually using and is there a synthetic that has it, and if so can you go longer between changes since synthetic isn't supposed to break down as fast from just sitting there?

Meanwhile, I'm reading up on all the engine stuff, taking the comments from everyone and then reading up more online is a lot of fun. My wife is back tonight from helping my son move though and I'm sure there will be a list...:~: but I'll be able to get into it more soon enough....maybe between 9 and 10 instead of all day.

[pbrown]

A word of caution... There is the 351W small block that looks very much like the 302. It is taller and wider than the original small block. Avoid this unless you plan to cut out the shock towers and use a Mustang II front suspension.

The 302 is available as the original 221, 260, 289, and 302.

The rollers do wear in time but if properly lubed will last as long and the main bearings and rings. Don't worry too much.

[Luva65wagon]

Though I was young and less insecure in my mechanical abilities back then, I did help a high-school buddy, in 1977, shoe-horn a 351W and and FMX into a 63 hardtop. It would go sideways going from first to second gear. It had shock towers. Don't ask me how we did it - other than having used cast-iron exhaust manifolds.

I do know I did a lot of things back then I don't have a lot of recollection regarding. I lived in a fog in my late teens and early 20's.
:NERVOUS:

[beerbelly]

I'm a big believer in high-ZDDP oils in an older flat tappet engine. That's the stuff that oils of the day had in them.

I'm running Valvoline VR1 in my 289; I find it at my local O'Reilly's or NAPA stores. Brad Penn makes a good one, and I've seen that Hemmings is marketing a synthetic blend with ZDDP also.

[pbrown]

Though I was young and less insecure in my mechanical abilities back then, I did help a high-school buddy, in 1977, shoe-horn a 351W and and FMX into a 63 hardtop. It would go sideways going from first to second gear. It had shock towers. Don't ask me how we did it - other than having used cast-iron exhaust manifolds.

I do know I did a lot of things back then I don't have a lot of recollection regarding. I lived in a fog in my late teens and early 20's.
:NERVOUS:

I remember helping a friend install a 351C in an early Mustang when in high school. It was a very tight fit. I recall that a sledge hammer was involved.

I also remember that same mustang driving full throttle through a Taco Bell drive through sign and ending up straddling the hood of a Delta 88. Those were fun times. [thumb]

[BPVan]

I wanted to wake this one back up as I am getting back to the van. My other projects are at a reasonable place and I can get back to the van at hand. Short story is I am done fighting the heat issues I am having with an inline 6. Moving to a 302 puts the exhaust headers outside my doghouse and the intake wont be bolted to the exhaust anymore.

The setup I am going for is a 302/AOD combo. Before I go crazy on internet research, is there a particular year range roller 302 to look for? EFI wont fit in my doghouse so is there anything to know when changing an EFI to a carb intake? I have to get an AOD from a Fox body mustang because it has the shorter tail shaft, perhaps this is a good era motor as well.

Larry mentioned heads, recommendation there? Im not looking for a race car, but a somewhat built street motor. I will be towing a small teardrop with it at some point but also want it to be fun.

Many opinions out there on all of this but I trust those here much better [BOW]

[pbrown]

The 5.0 was made all the way up to 2001 in the V8 Explorer. They were introduced starting in 1985 with the HO engine. Any of these engines can be made to work for you. You just need to change the oil pan, intake manifold, timing cover, and water pump to standard early 302 stuff.

Consider looking for a complete 5.0/AOD combo and then swapping the engine components to get it to fit.

[Luva65wagon]

I had partly considered building a roller motor for the Ranchero a few (long) months back after I had the pushrod/guide infringement issue and wasn't sure how it would survive after that. I found most motors already pulled to be double the cost of a complete car with the same setup. So don't discount the idea of getting a complete running vehicle and stripping it of what you need.

I don't have a lot of experience with the roller version of the SBF, but I think they may all have had fuel injection. That crazy-big EFI setup. As Patrick said you can just bolt on the carb bits from a regular 302... or 351w. The latter might fit your van as easily and you can find those in a lot of pickups and vans as opposed to focusing on a car version 302/5.0. Transmission options may be similar as well.

Bottom-line... sounds like fun!

[BPVan]

Points noted, and agreed. The swap I just got done with for the band RV required a donor vehicle and cost about 1/3 of piecing it out. We just had to buy a Jasper 4R100 for it: $$$$$$$$$$:WHATTHE:

The AOD had 2 tail shaft lengths and I need the shorter one since my engine is closer to the rear diff than most vehicles. There were only so many passenger cars with short shaft AOD (Non -E). Add to that a 5.0 and I think I am limited to fox body mustangs for a full setup that will fit. The crown vics and the marquis had long shafts from what I can find.

I am not in a hurry as my van is running well as is, just have the carb boiling issue that is tolerable. I can hunt without pressure :cool:

[pbrown]

Keep the L6 and convert to EFI. There are several kits that bolt on like a carb and would eliminate the float bowl issue.

https://www.msdperformance.com/products/fuel_systems/atomic_efi/atomic_efi_tbi/parts/2900