Odd Vibration

[Ric]

My 1964 falcon futura has a vibration at about 3000 rpm ish that is driving me nuts. I have a rebuild 200 which came with the car it has great oil pressure and compression , the c4 transmission was rebuilt by a local shop , I had a new drive line made for it , the differential was a ll redone , all the drive bearings are new the exhaust was done professionally I have all new wheels and tires. this vibration I have isolated to the engine or transmission which I had a new torque converter installed with the transmission rebuild and had installed a new harmonic balancer , water pump , fuel pump, alternator and fan blade. I made my buddy hold my exhaust pipe when i
revved up the motor to the vibration and it doesn't seem to be a problem there.
Any Ideas ? Any body good with this sort of thing ? I am more than willing to bring it to somebody if they think they have a good idea.
Ric

[SmithKid]

I certainly don't claim to be "good with this sort of thing", however I did trace a persistent (speed related, not RPM related) vibration to a new Magnum 500 (Wheel Vintique) that was improperly welded and had 1/8" run-out. The wheel was replaced and cured the vibration. These kinda problems are difficult to pin down sometimes and can require a bit of luck to find. So.... Good Luck!

[Jeff W]

Since your buddy was holding the exhaust pipe, should we assume it has the vibration when the car is not in motion?

[Ric]

The vibration is not motion related. It is RPM related so I think it is in the engine or transmission. It does it in Park or neutral and also when driving but it is clearly there when not moving at all
Ric

[Luva65wagon]

Gary (MacDee) had issues with vibrations on the Falcon before I bought it from him and IIRC it ended up being the torque converter.

http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19105&postcount=43

Maybe you got his old one somehow?

[Ric]

When the transmission was rebuilt they said they changed the torque converter. Still I think I will drive down and talk to them about it today.
I went back to the guy I bought the car from last night. He went crazy over the car but said he did nothing to the engine . Darn I was hoping he was the one who put it in there or I could get a little history on it. Still it was fun to take it back and let him see it.

[Ric]

Yeppers it has a new torque converter in it. I went back to the tranny shop to be sure
Ric

[MacDee]

Gary (MacDee) had issues with vibrations on the Falcon before I bought it from him and IIRC it ended up being the torque converter.

http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19105&postcount=43

Maybe you got his old one somehow?

Of course, Roger didn't tell you about the subsequent torque converter FAILURES!!
If you do end up needing another torque converter, get it from Hughes Performance in AZ.

[Luva65wagon]

Of course, Roger didn't tell you about the subsequent torque converter FAILURES!!

True, I opted to direct him to your thread so he could experience it all for himself.

:NERVOUS:

But it is true there were too many failures and "hopefully" the one in there now holds up. If it doesn't, a T5 may find its way in there.

But as for Ric's the only way to find this may be to do what you had to do and pull the transmission and put a flywheel on the motor to see if the vibration goes away or remains.

[Ric]

My falcon had the vibration before the rebuild and it is still there after the rebuild so it has remained through 2 torque converters. This thing is giving me a head ache . LOL. Still I would be interested in bringing my falcon to someone who has one fail and they could tell me if this vibration feels like theirs did

[SmithKid]

Anyone know what would happen if the wrong harmonic balancer found it's way onto the engine? :confused: I've no experience with what that could do, but trying a different one should be an easier thing to try than running it with a flywheel.

[Luva65wagon]

I remember my dad having odd vibrations in his '53 Plymouth. Drove him a bit crazy too. So he set out to figure out the cause, and as I was, his shadow, I was right there "helping." We ended up pulling the motor apart eventually and discovered this motor, which had apparently been a JC Whitney long-block rebuild (or some such thing), had 3 car connecting rods and 3 truck connecting rods. These flat-heads were used in multiple applications back then and had heavier connecting rods in the heavy-duty applications. Long story long, he changed to 6 of the same type and wa-la, balance was achieved. So, it is possible there are odd internals mixed in here too. Not sure what you can mix up in these motors since I've not studied that potential.

I am home a lot these days so feel free to PM me and maybe on a day that isn't pouring down rain you can arrange to have you bring it by and we'll have a feel/listen.

[Ric]

These are all good suggestions thanks. So far I am surely not seeing any easy fix. Taking the transmission out seems like a chore and so does pulling the engine and dissembling it looking for something odd. Both being things I have never done before. I am no expert but I think the 144 , 170 & 200 are all basically the same blocks internal parts could maybe be mixed . If it would just break I bet I could find the problem then lol. Maybe as the weather gets a bit better I will bring it to one of your meetings and maybe we could brainstorm it together.

[Ric]

Well surprise surprise I ran a compression check this morning it was disappointing . When I first got the car it was running from 150 -165 psi just fine for me. This morning I ran a check and got 80 - 110. OH MY. The cyl walls were oiled the first time from when I first fired it up. This time I just ran it a few minutes and then checked. I think what I have here is simply a tired old motor.

[Jeff W]

Or a tired compression tester. Maybe it was dropped since last time you checked. 50psi drop straight across all cylinders sounds suspicious and unlikely.

[Luva65wagon]

I agree with Jeff. I can't think of anything, engine-wise, to cause an across-the-board drop like that.

[Ric]

Well I am going to my brothers today I will drive the falcon and run a quick check on one of the cylinders with his gauge. In the mean time I have been looking at a 250 engine to put in it. I think its a straight across swap.

[Ric]

well I have been working on the falcon and I think I found the smoking gun. The head gasket was bad between # 4 & #3. I also found out my engine is a 1966 200 . Now the new problem. It has two bent push rods and I cant find any in the auto parts stores. I am looking for a couple fresh ones new or used if anyone has any suggestions It would sure help

[Luva65wagon]

I'm sure any auto machine shop can order you the right ones, but make sure they have a sample to see before ordering. By '66 I think all 200's were non-adjustable rockers with pushrods being a specific length. Measuring a non-bent one may be critical.

Good luck and thankfully you found the main issue.

[Ric]

OH well darn. The head gasket was bad and the push-rod was bent . Now it is all back together and running better than ever. One thing though it still has the vibration. I am going to drive and just enjoy the car for now . I am sort of out of ideas and money
LOL Ric