Classic Inlines Performance out of biz? Recommendations 4 headers?

[Wilbur]

I tried to contact Classic Inlines Performance in Mesa Arizona, their number has been disconnected.

Anybody have any knowledge of what happened to them?

I need a set of headers for my Ford 200 inline six, does anyone have any other recommendations?

My exhaust manifold is cracking in many places and time to replace it so I figure I'll go with a header.

Did you notice an improvement with ONLY a header upgrade?

If your bolts holding the factory ex. manifold were rusted, how did you remove them? I've watched youtube vids on how to do so and wonder if others were successful with any of the methods for removing frozen rusted header bolts. Thank you.

[Nathan289]

Owner died..

Supposedly the business was being sold, but so far its been 6 months or so and its stuck in limbo.

[Luva65wagon]

Clifford is where the headers came from - I think even from CI:

http://www.shop.cliffordperformance.net/68-Headers-Mustangs-All-Bodies-64-up-53-0186.htm

Getting out broken studs or even stuck studs, is fun. Soak them good with Kroil or PB Blaster - or whatever else you like - and be careful. If already broken, with the head still on, you'll learn new curse words you never knew existed.

I did notice some improvement with headers, but it may have been that it sounded better and I equated that as a performance boost. You know, like when you put cards in your bike spokes. Or when you ran like BatMan did with you fingers pointing straight out. You were sure these things made you faster.

:banana:

[Wilbur]

Thanks for the replies. One way or another I need a new exhaust manifold. Thanks for the recommendations on removing header bolts. I'll post a reply when I am running the new set up and give some feedback.

[Wilbur]

Out of curiosity, I looked up the weight of the original factory log exhaust manifold, it says 15 pounds on the FALCON PARTS website. That seems unusually light.

Have either of you noticed, was the header assembly lighter or heavier than the original factory cast iron exhaust manifold?

I may go to the factory manifold because I see I may have issues with getting an exhaust system made to hook up to the two outlets on the Clifford header, translation: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

Whereas if I buy the factory log style, I only have to bolt my current exhaust up to it, case closed, and it will cost less than half the price of the header.

Anyway, just wondering if you noticed whether the Clifford header was lighter or heavier than the factory log exhaust manifold. Thanks

[Luva65wagon]

I have the single out version, which they have not offered since not soon after I bought mine in 1998. It's not light though and I suspect a dual collector version would be heavier still by a pound or two, not to mention the adapter to get it to dual-into-one on the exhaust pipe side.

I have 2, maybe 3, 6'r exhaust manifolds in my shed. One, I know, came off my Ranchero motor when it was a 200-6. It has a broken ear on the rear-most bolt hole, but I used a thick washer and it held tight. It uses the doughnut gasket. I believe I have one with a flat flange too. As a club member - you can have either or both of them if you come and get them.

[PhilC]

Classic Inlines branded headers were not made by Clifford, Mike had outsourced production to another manufacturer. CI did sell the Clifford product years ago, but there were known clearance issues with Clifford's dual outlet header. I know, I have a set I bought from Clifford.

Unless you make other enhancements, add the 3/4 port divider, improve intake flow, etc., the addition of a header alone on the stock 200 won't yield any performance gains. You'd be better off retaining the stock manifold so you don't have to dump a bunch of $$ into a new exhaust system.

I have 3 good used manifolds, no broken ears, and would be happy to sell one plus shipping. PM me for details. ;)

[Luva65wagon]

Good info. I musta looked back when they did.

I have the port divider with my header install and the single-out version. It was still tight at the frame/idler arm intersection.

Here's a couple pics of the manifold I have. You can see, in the fuzzy sense, the broken ear on the upper rear bolt-hole. It never leaked and I used a pretty thick washer to spread the clamping force gooder.

[PhilC]

Attached pics shows the clearance issue with the Clifford p/n 53-2112 dual outlet header.

Comments from the .html file of a webpage I had up for years (now gone) dating back to 2007, "In an attempt to resolve the problem on my own, I removed the split style lockwasher from the terminal and replaced it with a star washer. I trimmed all the "excess" terminal and that gained me sufficient clearance to install the header without it touching the terminal. Even after that, I am only able to slip a matchbox cover between the terminal and #5 tube. Not even close to adequate. No modifications were made to the header whatsoever."

Note the clearance between the shock tower and outer tube, more than enough to have offset the tube arrangement for greater clearance at the starter terminal.

EDIT TO ADD: I found pics of the head before and after rebuild showing the 3/4 port divider installed and the "stealth" 200 installed. [thumb]

[ew1usnr]

I have the port divider with my header install and the single-out version.

Hello, Roger.

I like the way that you used yellow paint to highlight "FIRING ORDER 523624".

How did you and Phil C divide the center exhaust port? Is that something that inserts and is welded in place?

Thanks, Dennis.

[PhilC]

Hello, Roger.

I like the way that you used yellow paint to highlight "FIRING ORDER 523624".

How did you and Phil C divide the center exhaust port? Is that something that inserts and is welded in place?

Thanks, Dennis.
I had my machinist weld the divider in. Some people just insert the divider and rely on interference fit between the manifold or header to hold it in place, but many who did this later complained of the divider loosening in the ports and rattling after use. I wanted none of that, and since the head and engine was being rebuilt anyway, ponied up a few extra $$ to have it permanently welded in place. ;)

[Wilbur]

Wow, you guys are awesome... what a wealth of information and experience among forum members to consult for advice!

Luva65 and PhilC, thanks for the offers on your manifolds. I did consider a used manifold but I have had ten plus Falcons, at least five of them, maybe seven were inline sixes. I believe nearly every one of them had a cracked manifold, well, no, my first Falcon did not, it ran quiet, but most had manifold issues.

So when I thought it over, I figured if I buy an old used manifold it will only be a matter of time before it too cracks. I am still considering a used manifold though so I may contact you.

The reason I may consider a used manifold is that I prefer to avoid "Made in China" and if the retailers are offering such I may just avoid it. Next reason is I get to come see it in person and compare it to my own manifold on the car to make sure it is the exact one I used on my car.

I have a Frankenstein, A 64 Falcon that had a motor swap using a 200 inline six with toploader three speed out of a 70 Maverick (or so I was told) so I won't be sure what to order when I buy from an online retailer. I believe I saw two or three options for the 200 six manifold and I want the correct one. Buying in person can avoid the issue of getting the wrong one.

My only concern with a used one, as mentioned, is how long before it too cracks like all my other inline six manifolds on all the Falcons I've owned in the past thirty years.

I've already decided to avoid the header, too many question marks, too many potential issues and at this moment in my life I'm very busy and cannot afford a $600 plus expense for a manifold.

I actually have a port divider but I never installed it because I never took the head off, heck, when the clutch went I parked the car and it sat for eight to ten years with only an occasional run to keep the car from deteriorating, I rarely need to drive.

Only last summer did I finally get around to doing the job and as you may recall, I ran into infinite problems with inferior parts or the wrong parts being delivered, and then winter hit and the car sat some more. I actually finished the job this summer!

Then the car ran like dirt, a friend helped me rebuild the carb, and now it runs like a top. I bought "Mike's Carbs" rebuild kit and float, no issues, no complaints so far, thirty bucks for the kit with brass float.

I have been running the car around over the past few days, I forgot how much fun it was to drive, MUCH more agile than my V8 Falcon, and much slower, but not slow at all. Part of the loss of acceleration is because I geared the snot out of the car.

I have 2.79:1 rear ratio, 15 inch stock factory steel wheels with very tall HIGH PROFILE snow tires on back, 225/70-15 tires, maybe even 225/75-15 tires.

I built it this way so I could mosey on down the highway at 75 mph without the motor even breathing hard. In 2002 I took this car to St. George Utah, where I lived and worked, then when that job ended, to California for a visit, then drove it back to Washington, and highway cruising was wonderful, 70 plus mph where legal and effortless driving, unlike my V8 Falcon which is screaming its guts out with 13 inch tires and 3.25:1 final drive ratio.

Oh, the inline six returned 29 miles to the gallon from Seattle all the way to Utah, I measured at every fill up and that's the economy I got.

On two certified scales the car weighed 2430 pounds, and with the 200 inline six, that low a weight gets pushed along nicely with nearly 200 ft/lbs of torque and the measly 120 hp, despite the tall gearing.

With the original 13 inch wheels and tires, and original six cylinder rear ratio, the car would light up the tires from a dead stop without dumping the clutch as I recall.

I'll get some recent photos of the car on here soon. It's ugly, I rescued it from a junkyard in 2000, but it's a good car.

[PhilC]

Replied to your PM. Primary difference between the OE manifolds is the 60 - 62 used a flat flange for the exhaust mounting surface vs the donut style for 63 and beyond. If your 200 came from a 70 Maverick, and the 70 manifold was used, it is the donut style.

Only other concern is manual/automatic choke, to me it wouldn't matter, but to you it might. If you have a manual choke, you can use either one. There are ways to make an automatic choke work without the heat tube (fab a heat stove) if you're so inclined.

I'll know later today which specific manifolds I have.

As with anything used, no guarantee future failure won't happen, then again it might last the life of the car. ;)

[Luva65wagon]

I have a port divider, but rather than welding it in, which required brazing it with head still on, I added just a bit of weld to the center of the header so when I bolted it on this weld pushed on the divider. After many years the divider is still tight and using my custom hand-made copper gaskets there has been no leaks either. Can't do that with stock exhaust manifold though.

They claim the port divider improved the performance due to balancing out this massive opening between 3 and 4, which was different than all the other ports. But it has been 15+ years since I read anything about it, so what the actual claim was is a bit foggy. I'm pretty sure the design for the large opening was to help with carb icing, since they didn't have heat risers on the 6 in those years.

[Wilbur]

Posting some pics of my exhaust manifold, and one cat, not mine, some stray who likes my cooking. :D

[ew1usnr]

Posting some pics of my exhaust manifold, and one cat, not mine, some stray who likes my cooking. :D

Hello, Wilbur.

What is the plug with a cap that is on your heater hose?

I like the picture of the kitty.

Dennis.

[Luva65wagon]

First look the manifold looks like the one I have. Don't think there's a difference if donut style.

That cap Dennis, that's a Prestone Flush TEE which is capped. Take off the cap and hook up a hose and you can flush the coolant system.

[Wilbur]

Dennis, I will take a look at that cap tomorrow when it's daylight. Luva65, yes, mine uses the donut between the exhaust and manifold. I've had that on and off a few times and remember clearly it uses the donut. I'll send you a PM.

[PhilC]

Wilbur that's an automatic choke manifold, see where the heat tube was broken off in the center of the manifold? You, or someone else, has fabbed a heat stove on the front half of the manifold as a replacement. Bet it works well too. [thumb]

Plug with cap is indeed a flush T.

Roger I remember reading something similar with respect to the port divider not necessarily making much of an improvement, if any, regarding 3/4 exhaust flow balance. Like you, it has been several years since I was "into" the I-6 performance stuff. If installing an individual tube header it's all but impossible to seal the huge 3/4 opening without the port divider, at least with all the I-6 headers on the market when I built my 200. Stock cast manifold, not worth the effort. ;)

[Wilbur]

Oh, so that's what that hole is there for... the choke. The set up they put in place as a replacement works well though, without fouling up the auto choke innards. Me, I kind of like manual chokes but I never got around to converting this one, everything on this motor is "AS IS" from when I pulled it from a donor '64 Falcon I bought in 2000.

The motor, according to the prior owner of the donor, came from a '70 or '71 Maverick, it is the large bell housing bolt pattern that comes with the heavy duty V8 toploader trans, which was never an option on inline six Falcons in '64. The donor car was nice so I sold it, I wish I kept it, but at the time I owned some seven to ten or more cars. It was bronze, a repaint, the original color was platinum, similar to silver but richer. It was a very straight car, if I remember right, perfectly straight with some rust in floors and trunk.

Anyway I needed a motor for my Falcon because it had a 302 that was blown up and I wanted an inline six anyway as I already had a V8 Falcon that I never drove due to the gas guzzling. The inline six provided plenty of punch, it would spin the tires from a dead stop WITHOUT dumping the clutch. I added very tall 2.79:1 gearing so that punch went away but it still accelerates nicely.

Dennis, I looked at that set up there today, it is an ATLAS brand kit but the same deal as described by Luva65, though I've never used it, but it could use a flush so maybe it's time to put it into use.

I'll add a photo or two of the car that I took a couple months back, after I got it back on the road, and maybe one side by side with my other black Falcon. Both cars were rescued from junkyards so if they look rough, that's why and they are far far far nicer now than when I found them. I always had a thing for ugly cars. I truly regret letting go of the '65 Falcon I used as a donor for the black Falcon Futura.

A large tree branch had fallen onto the roof of the donor, a '65 burgundy four door Falcon with an inline six. The entire roof behind the driver was crushed right down to the tops of the doors and it was still driveable. I drove that car for MONTHS as is, it drove beautifully and I should have just kept it and found another donor. That was around 1998 if anyone remembers seeing that car around Lake City Seattle.

I'll also add a photo of my blue Falcon.

[BadBird]

Do I understand this correctly that you have both the Falcons pictured? I love the 65 2 door sedan car. I used to race against a guy who had one back when I raced my 67 Olds 442. I can't remember what engine he had, but it ran very well. So it wasn't a 289 or less that's for sure. Anyway, love the cars. Larry

[Wilbur]

BadBird, I have three Falcons, all 1964 Falcons, all two door post granny grocery getters, my favorite style, rather than the more desired two door hardtops.

In that one photo, yes, my two black Falcons are there, I used to have three identical black Falcons parked side by side right there in that same spot.

A kid once asked me: "How come you have three of the same car?"

My response was: "Because I cannot afford five of the same car." :)

I regret selling the nicest black Falcon, but it was CHERRY, original owner, 36,000 miles, a time capsule, and without a garage it was getting destroyed by assholes. I found foot prints on it once. Another asshole threw something and put a three inch dent in the roof. Another asshole side swiped the car and damaged the passenger side quarter panel, chrome, and bumper.

I decided to sell the car to a guy who had his own private museum, turning down an offer by a woman who was going to give it to her 16 year old daughter as a gift. I politely explained to the woman that I cannot "sell the car to the devil" and kept it some months more. Believe it or not, I was very nice and polite when I spoke the truth, after the mom asked why I would not sell her the car.

The blue Falcon was owned by a beautiful sexy young blond Scorpio woman, we became friends, she treasured the car and over the years I helped her with the Falcon's few problems. Unfortunately she had a boyfriend who she later married, he "got the girl" and I got the car. Them is the breaks.

So I currently own three Falcons, down from four Falcons. There are plenty of stories attached to all three cars, and I've shared a bit on each over the years on this forum.

The black Falcon with the extra chrome trim, the black Futura, the motor in that one belonged to the wife of the gentleman who started Rainier Falcons, Jessica. There is plenty of history in my cars!!

Glad you enjoyed the photos, I hope to get better pictures in the coming weeks. By the way, those two black Falcons, I had to buy four Falcons to build those two Falcons, they were junkyard cars, one was nothing but a shell.

[DanP]

I too wanted to get some stuff from Classic Inlines. Their website is still up. I was about to place an order, but had a question, so decided to call. The number is disconnected. I was afraid to enter my CC number after that.

[PhilC]

FWIW, here's what's posted at FordSix Performance with respect to Classic Inlines website:


As most of you know. Since Mike (AzCoupe) passed away. No one has access to the classicinlines.com website. If you try to place an order from the website, it will get lost in cyberspace.

Please email nocancr@msn.com if you're looking for products

Also, please be patient. Does10s and his wife are handling everything as time permits.This comment was posted by the assistant admin on 9.30.15

[DanP]

Thanks, Phil. I decided last night to throw caution to the wind and place an order there, since I couldn't find what I was looking for anywhere else at a reasonable price. Interestingly, I did get an order confirmation - although that appears to be from the credit card processor. From what you're saying, that may not make it through to Does10s. I'll follow up with an email to the address you provided.

[ew1usnr]

I saw this article yesterday that says Classic Inlines has been purchased by a new owner and the performance cylinder head is back in production.

The article starts out saying: "Since the first Mustangs and Falcons ...."
It would be more correct to say: "Since the first Falcons and Mustangs ...." :)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/finally-a-performance-cylinder-head-for-ford-six-cylinders/ar-AAvM2AZ?ocid=ientp

[Wilbur]

I saw this article yesterday that says Classic Inlines has been purchased by a new owner and the performance cylinder head is back in production.

The article starts out saying: "Since the first Mustangs and Falcons ...."
It would be more correct to say: "Since the first Falcons and Mustangs ...." :)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/finally-a-performance-cylinder-head-for-ford-six-cylinders/ar-AAvM2AZ?ocid=ientp

Thank you Ew1, that was an informative article. It quoted the weights of the iron and alloy heads as being 46 pounds and 26 pounds respectively. That actually sounds light for the iron head.

It will be interesting to see what kind of performance Falcon owners get with this head and a mild build, meaning nothing more than a header, a two barrel carb, and nothing more or just inexpensive mods.

It would be nice if the above provides at least a 40 hp boost and 50 ft lb of torque, that should wake up a little Falcon.

[MacDee]

The new company is Vintage Inlines.
https://www.vintageinlines.com/

[Luva65wagon]

Run! Don't look back!

Freddie had one of these heads. Gary and I are both frightfully aware its true weight.

[Millennial Falcon]

In case anyone other than me is interested, the aluminum heads by Vintage Inlines are getting very close to production.

This will be the centerpiece of my entire build so i am quite excited and hoping for the best!
And yes I am aware of how not exciting that makes my build to all you V8 guys grinning as my car shrinks in your rearview mirror.

[Luva65wagon]

I highly recommend reading the Freddie Comes Alive thread here before you commit to your purchase. I'm fully aware the build can be done, having made one work, but a previous Falcon owner had equal enthusiasm prior to his build - only to eventually sell the car in frustration. I have a lot of my personal observations about this head in that thread that may help you pull it off.

[Millennial Falcon]

I read the thread you mentioned.
It was difficult to follow what the history of the build and later fixes were, but it seems you found the build quality of both the cam shaft and head to be suspect though.

Would you have any recommendations on making both of these purchases that could eliminate or mitigate these issues?
If this was your build, but not your personal car, would you even consider the inline 6 after that experience?

I'm worried now that the only recommendations I'll find here is something other than the inline 6. Don't get me wrong, i can listen to reason, but its the emotional turmoil of breaking up with my latest plan that gets me.

[Luva65wagon]

Matt,

You can build a pretty hot 6 without spending $2500 on just the head (or whatever they go for these days). Personally, if it were me having been the one building the motor and not just being the one who now has to figure out what a half-dozen other people did, and I wanted to use that head, I'd do port fuel injection and a 5-speed. These two items would have negated the lions-share of time spent on tinkering with it - and would have probably kept the car in the original owners possession as well. He had big eyes for the prospect of what this head would produce, but there were more hassles than it was worth; and every issue had root in this head swap. Not all 100% caused by the head, but because of what the head requires.

Granted, bling factor is substantial, and it has the potential for power you would be hard pressed to make with stock 6 parts, but you won't get too far from it with a machined big-log head of the correct match (internal bits: pistons, valve sizes, head volume, etc.). But none of this will substitute for opening the hood and seeing a big chunk of aluminum all shined up.

So, don't get me wrong, it has potential, but be aware the pitfalls. That's basically where I'm coming from
.. as a "been there, done that" sort of thing.

If you plan on an automatic, be sure to use a block allowing good torque converter selection with ample stall. You can't buy one off the shelf to fit a small bell housing block. Custom built TC will be around $500,and still be puny. This was a significant issue as the original owner blew up two TC's before getting a custom TC. Mostly due to the cam. Even a 2500 stall TC barely allowed it to shift into gear correctly. But you want a lot of cam to have the head provide more than bling. Again consider a 5-speed. You'll have far better experience. But you'll still want a large bell housing block for even this. A 8.5" clutch disc isn't enough, unless you can get a double stack clutch setup for this, which is doubtful.

Because the VI head has unequal length intake runners, port fuel injection would increase the tuning potential a lot. The 390 Holley works - and it really is the only carburetor you can use - but you'll be fiddling with it a lot. Perhaps a standard throttle - body style EFI would be more forgiving, but I didn't have the luxury.

So, in all, I'm just one guy who took over a project from another guy. I'm sure there are other guys who had totally different experiences with it. I looked to them back then with little luck. I really felt I was on my own - as did the original owner, who was paying others to do the work and breaking the bank to do so. I'm not trying to dissuade you from attaining your vision; you'll fail not having one, just offering a little flashlight to help you see it a little better.

Hope something here made sense. Really should have at least one cup of coffee before writing stuff like this. :confused:

[Millennial Falcon]

I kinda feel like everything to do with this cars engine is not a good option for me. I am a good mechanic, however i am not an auto mechanic. Nor am i an engineer. I find that nearly everything i could do to improve this cars engine requires me to re-engineer the engine and drivetrain far beyond my abilities, and at a cost that only makes me look like an idiot.

I am already too financially invested in non-returnable 4-lug stuff to swallow the V8 upgrades needed for that route. Its hard to picture that build going much better than the 6 because i would need a whole new drivetrain once again.

Simply rebuilding a 200 is a hard pill to swallow. Its hard to explain why, but i just want something more substantial for my money. I'm looking for a steak, not a burger.

The other option i have been dreading is sell now before i get too deep. I could take the money i have now, the money i get from selling the Falcon, and buy something that already works.

I don't make much in my career. This is very likely to be the only chance i will ever get to have a toy that i've wanted since i was a kid.

Thanks for all the advice Roger, sometimes a good gut punch is the only thing that will get me to drop that bone between my teeth.

[Luva65wagon]

Matt,

I just had my last reply go POOF!

So to cut to the chase... What is your goal and how much of what you now have is being reused? 170/C4?

[Millennial Falcon]

I have a 200 from a 68 mustang and it’s mated C4. The C4 in my car already will likely not be helpful.

I really just want this car to replace my 1200 Sportster, had to sell it because of back issues. It had loads of torque, was mostly dangerous driven hard, and was awesome for blasting around town. I’d like EFI, a reliable and strong distributor, and I’m open to a manual transmission. It sounds simple, but I know, it’s not.

I’m just nervous about getting into a big head project that requires someone with just the right touch to get right. This would all be very custom to get EFI installed and I have no idea who I could go to. And trust.

Im open to suggestions of machinists and pretty much anything else.

[Luva65wagon]

I have a 200 from a 68 Mustang...
I?m just nervous about getting into a big head project that requires someone with just the right touch to get right.

Given your goal of having a sporty little Falcon, if I were you I'd build the 68 200 with modest performance adds. It's probably not a big log head, but with a little bigger cam to let it breathe in and out just a bit longer, a set of headers, a 1 or 2 barrel Holley EFI and instead of big money on a head, spend about the same amount on swapping in a T5 5-SPEED. You'll get more enjoyment from that than the head. Modern Driveline has everything in a kit to make it a pretty simple install. You'll be able to sell most of your cast-offs to supplement the purchase of something, like the EFI. You'll have in the end a very reliable, and sporty, Falcon. Emphasis on reliable. And none of this requires an engineering degree.

That's what I would do.

FWIW, I've built nearly 20 cars in my 60 years and have focused the last 30 something on learning everything Falcon I can. I've done my share of do and redo; heck, my Ranchero has gone through 4, maybe 5 iterations, and it's the nature of the beast. I find having access to the brain cells of those who have lived and learned to be a great asset. Not saying I'm the best there is, but have a pretty decent track record so far.

[BadBird]

The engine bay pictured here may be the most beautiful bay I've ever seen on a Falcon. In all of the Falcons I've seen over the last 15 years has anyone approached your level of detail. Follow Roger's advice and not much will go wrong. Larry