Saving Granddad's Falcon

[dhbfaster]

HI Guys, good falcon day today.

Speaker - After seeing Dennis's picture...maybe I"m being too picky?? A pic of mine attached. It's a radioshack realistic brand. I'm thinking I should go ahead and restore the radio first and then worry about the speaker. Roger...thanks for the offer! but no need to mail anything...this falcon is going to be ready for the startup before xmas...so you can just bring it with you. :D

New clip...I made a new clip that goes under the throttle bar assembly out of aluminum and plasticoat. I think it's a pretty good replica! The third pic over is a pic of the old one and the new one. I think I could have worked at Ford back in the day...:ROTFLMAO: The 2nd pic from the left is a pic of it installed.

I have a Mystery hole...fourth pic from left...pic of the holes in the firewall. The large hole is the lower heater hose hole and the two with the tape with "BL" are for the brake line clips. So what's the lower small hole in the middle between the two structure ribs for? I'm thinking it's for a firewall pad clip...? but the new firewall pad doesn't go down that low there and I got rid of the old pad (it was discusting). I'm about to put a firewall clip in there and hope for the best...:confused:

This last pic is the vacuum connection on the distributor. i was fitting up all my new engine lines...but looked in there at this connection...lots of corrosion inside where the brass fitting will go. Doesn't look like it will seal well. I'm not sure what to clean it with or if I should. Any thoughts? I was also wondering if I can buy just this piece of the distributor. I definitely don't want to buy a new distributor just for this if I don't have to. (Update...looks like rock auto does sell the vacuum advance for $25 if I need it.)

Thanks as always...[BOW][BOW]

[ew1usnr]

Ok...back to my rear lic plate bracket...I'm seriously on the hunt here..:eek:

Hello, Don.

Seen on ebay this morning for $35: "62 FORD FALCON REAR BUMPER LICENSE PLATE LIGHT W/ MOUNT BRACKET OEM"

5261

"TAKEN FROM A 1962 FALCON. THIS IS THE OEM REAR LICENSE PLATE LIGHT WITH MOUNT BRACKET. WIRE HAS NOT BEEN CUT, HAS ORIGINAL PLUG END. I AM PARTING OUT A 62 FALCON SEDAN. IF YOU NEED ANYTHING SPECIFIC, PLEASE LET ME KNOW."

Look at e-bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/62-FORD-FALCON-REAR-BUMPER-LICENSE-PLATE-LIGHT-W-MOUNT-BRACKET-OEM-/121822064108?fits=Year%3A1963%7CMake%3AFord%7CMode l%3AFalcon&hash=item1c5d292dec:g:DM0AAOSwHQ9WUnN8&vxp=mtr

[dhbfaster]

Thanks for looking out for one Dennis! I need to update more often.
I did get one from Phil. He blasted it for me before he sent it. I painted it last weekend and yesterday I installed it and the license plate and it works perfectly.:banana:

[dhbfaster]

Well...this carpet install just isn't quite as easy as the video's seem to make it out to be. So far no mistakes (that can't be hidden) though.:eek: A cold garage doesn't help much either.

Jeff and/or Roger
The carpet hole making with the hot pipe held by the vice grips makes a very professional hole....img attached. :rocker:

A few questions now:

1) The video's online (for mustangs) say I should put some underlayment under the carpet and it says the carpet is sized for that (and it says this is in addition to the jute already stuck to the bottom of the carpet.) I didn't see a kit for it. Did you guys add some synthetic carpet pad under the low foot areas and on the hump? Appreciate any advice here. It does seems like some 1/4 inch or so synthetic carpet pad might work nicely.

2) I seem to have about 3/8 of an inch of space between where the molded carpet wants to be and the door opening edge. Both sides front and back are like this. See the image that is a bit out of focus (sorry)...that's the gap I'm talking about- on the sides where the carpet needs to tuck under the threshold. Jeff is this where you said you sort of had to reshape it with a heat gun?

3) Next picture- Is the carpet supposed to go partially over the edge and then under the aluminum door thresholds? or does it just come up the side and the threshold sort of caps over the it? It seems too thick for the threshold to go over this stuff, but just want to make sure. I can see how it would really need to be perfectly stretched into place (and maybe glued?) if the threshold just caps over the edge.

Speaking of glue...should I glue any or most of this stuff in place?

Thanks as always....I really want to be sure before I do any more cutting!
[BOW][BOW]

[Jeff W]

I only used one layer of the very sticky but thin Generic Dynamat stuff under the carpet, no other pad.

My ACC brand carpet had the "mass backing" and I think it also had some sort of jute panels glued to the back in places. I did not add anything else. If you can fit more, that probably isn't a bad thing.

For your corner gap, I used a heat gun (more industrial than hair dryer) to heat the backside of that crease and when super hot (wear gloves) I used a scrap 2x4 and pressed the carpet hard into the corner to move that crease over and tighter. I was sitting on the rest of the carpet to hold it in place.

I also used the heat gun to reform my kick panels... maybe that is what you were remembering.

After reforming that crease, I trimmed the carpet flush with the top pinch weld seam along the door still, maybe just slightly proud, 1/8 to 3/16. The still plate just acted like a cap and you would see both edges of the carpet and the metal sill. The carpet did not fold over the metal, I don't think that thin sill plate would allow it. I don't remember if I used any adhesive on that vertical 4 inches or so... I don't think I did.:NERVOUS: If I did, that was the only place I used any on the entire project.

This worked for me. Not an expert.

[dhbfaster]

Thanks Jeff!
For the record it is ACC with mass backing and it does have some jute squares already on here.

[ew1usnr]

For the record it is ACC with mass backing and it does have some jute squares already on here.

Hello, Don.

I used carpet with mass backing and it had jute backing attached. I didn't use any other adhesive or extra padding and it seemed to fit OK without much effort.

5273

Don't forget to add your seat retractor-return springs.

5274

Dennis.

[dhbfaster]

Thanks Dennis
Those two springs in the pic of the carpet in the car...where do those attach to the seats?

[ew1usnr]

Thanks Dennis
Those two springs in the pic of the carpet in the car...where do those attach to the seats?

Hello, Don.

It took me a while to figure out where the springs attached to, and that I needed two of them.

The front of the springs attach to two of these anchor locations on the floor.

5275

Here is the service manual illustration that shows the retractor spring:

5276

This is a corresponding view of the seat frame, but from right to left versus left to right. The top edge of the rectangular bracket sticking up from the seat frame on the left side of the picture is the rear spring attachment point.

5277

Here is a blurry photo of one of the the rear spring attachment points on the on the seat frame. The springs hook onto the rear notches:

5278

The left side spring was lying on the floor under the seat (top spring) when I got the car and the right spring was missing. The seat needs two springs or it will twist and be difficult to slide forwards and back. I replaced the missing spring with a throttle return spring (middle spring) that looked about the same as the one spring that I had. The bottom spring was too stiff. The two longer springs work well together and the seat moves back and forth very easily on its lubricated tracks.

5279

It is a whole lot easier to attach the springs before the seats are bolted down. Soak the seat slider tracks with lithium grease while you have the seats out.

Have fun, Dennis.

[Luva65wagon]

Don. ACC carpet and Dynamat was all I used. Pretty much do what Jeff said he did. Every car and carpet are different in regard to fit, so take it slow and make sure when working on the left after finishing the right, you don't pull the right over to the left.

It is a rewarding milestone to achieve.

[Jeff W]

It is a rewarding milestone to achieve.

Agreed. I think it was the MOST rewarding and immediate satisfaction on the whole project. Before the seats were in, my daughter's layer on that new carpet are read books for a couple of hours while I worked on installation of the seatbelts.

That single project took the sterile hunk of metal and made it something you could touch and enjoy without fear of getting cut, poked or dirty.;:)

[dhbfaster]

One more question while I'm out for the week...which hole on the inside of the car (kick panel area) does the radio antenna cable go through?

Thanks for the tips everyone. I'm off to Detroit for work this week, but hopefully Jason will come over this weekend so we can get this done.
[BOW][BOW]

[SmithKid]

I brought mine thru the large squarish hole.

[Luva65wagon]

Hmmm. I had a hole almost hard-up against the bottom edge of the cowl for the antenna wire, but it was round IIRC. The antenna is supposed to have a grommet in the hole with the wire pushed through it. But it is up high near the top of the fender.

[dhbfaster]

Thanks...I'll look high. There is a round grommet on the antenna cable.

Now for a rant...:doh::doh: Fortunately, my older age kept me from ranting too soon on this one, and even though some of our "suppliers" don't make me love them now and then, I'm glad we have them so I typically try not to rant about bad experiences publicly- but here's a different twist. My throttle pedal is pretty trashed and next to those nice new clutch and brake pads on top of new carpet etc...of course it look horrible. You know how it goes. So, I got onto Macs, and there were two different versions that included 1961 in the date range. Neither one had the exact part number as on my pedal...but one said "Exact replica." So...how does it get any better than that right? Exact replica for like $15 (plus shipping but I needed other stuff anyway) and there was a NOS on ebay for $45 or so. So, I ordered the replica. This thing arrived and it was a piece of garbage! The original is real rubber over a steel plate. This one was the cheapest of cheap plastic over cheaper plastic with a flaky plastic hinge! it weighed like 1 oz. :mad:
I called customer service, filed a formal "investigation request" and...albeit a week later I get a call from them saying they agree(!) and they are just going to send me the other pedal pad they sell, which is rubber over steel and he says no comparison to the other one...for free! :BEER:
I hope it's as nice as I'm expecting...:NERVOUS:

[Luva65wagon]

"Replica" and "Exact Replica" can mean different things. A replica could include a scale model. But I would cry foul as well if something called itself an 'exact replica' and it wasn't anything closer than a 'model' of something. I think I have one of those plastic replicas in my pile of parts to get rid of.

Also, and I've mentioned this somewhere else before, I'm very leery of rubber NOS items. Rubber can oxidize over time (50 years is a long time) and something that looks brand new, but was never exercised for 50 years; if all the sudden it is put into service that NOS rubber item may actually fail pretty quickly. It would have needed to have been stored correctly and I'd venture a guess they haven't been. It this case I'll bet the pivot point at the floor would crack quickly.

Good luck with the next gas pedal you get. Mac's is now the same as Dearborn Classics - owned by Ecklers - and I've moved from them in favor of Melvin's. Just got too many poor-QC'd parts. There are issues with them all, if you look hard enough, but I've bought from everyone over the years and so-far (apart from some shipping cost issues at Melvin's, which you can get past by just buying enough at once to justify the shipping minimum) I've found their quality to be pretty high pretty consistently. The other place I buy from is NPD using their Mustang catalog, which shares many of the same parts with the Falcon. If you can find the equivalent Mustang item you'll pay sometimes 50% less for it over that same part from a Falcon vendor..

[dhbfaster]

Actually, it says "Exact Reproduction 60--65 Falcon."
I was also wary of the NOS pedal due to the old rubber (although I asked the guy on eBay and he said it was good) and haven't bought any NOS rubber or plastic for that reason. This one isn't a QC thing, I think it's literally just false advertising by the supplier of this part. Looks like the supplier is HPR...I haven't heard of that one. I'll update when the new one comes in.:shift:

[dhbfaster]

Does anyone know what the diameter size for the original muffler for a 61 is?
I think the one that was on mine is an Aftermarket (Walker brand), but it's 5.5" diameter and I don't see 5.5" for sale anywhere. Everyplace seems to make you choose between 5" and 6" diameter. Was the falcon original a 5 or a 6"?
Now that it's off the car, I also don't want to order 6" and then have it not fit. I"m thinking about ordering it online. [BOW]

[Luva65wagon]

I'd put some glass-packs on it!

:3g:

Actually, I don't have any clue. But had to comment. It's what I do. :)

[redfalken]

I can't recall but do you have the stock 14 gallon fuel tank or the 16 gallon Mustang tank? If I recall, the stock tank has an indentation on the passenger side where the muffler fits between it and the leaf spring.

The Mustang tank does not have this indent and makes a stock muffler a tight fit. When I had my new exhaust system installed I had them put a more oval shaped muffler forward of the axle. But I know you're working on keeping yours as stock as possible. Just something to keep in mind.

[dhbfaster]

Mannnn......good point Kenny. :eek: Thanks for that note!
I do have the 16 gallon tank (falcon aftermarket version). There it is again...change one thing and it leads to another and on and on...

I put the old muffler up in there this evening...and it is definitely very snug. I can see why you moved it forward and went oval.

I was actually thinking about using my old one piece pipe from the manifold to the muffler...and having it blasted and ceramic coated in the tungsten gray. (They have an air cure process.) I was thinking it would look awesome...be essentially original and actually costs less than stainless steel (and have more original sound.) I was going to order a stainless OEM type muffler and just clamp it on. So much for my bright ideas! :rolleyes: Now...I'm not sure what to do. Even a 5" looks tight. Maybe I'll look closer this weekend in the daylight, or maybe I'll wait until it's running and go to a muffler shop and see what fits.

Meanwhile on the gas pedal front....if you recall the story...my original one is pretty icky compared to the new pedals and has a huge crack in the rubber at the bottom. So...I ordered the "exact reproduction" which was a light weight piece of ....well, it seems cheap. So, I called and they sent me out the other version at no cost...it arrived and it is a nice, heavy, original style rubber over metal...love it. Then I put it next to the old one...pics attached. It's a different angle. Looks like it will be totally misaligned with the throttle bar. Meanwhile, the cheap plastic one is the same angle. :doh::doh: This type of thing should be simpler than it is. Is there an emotion of a guy gagging??

[Luva65wagon]

Don. It looks like the holes in the new pedal are offset whereas the original are straight and they angled the pedal in relation to the holes. Align the holes from old to new with a straight edge and it may bring the new pedal to the correct angle.

[Luva65wagon]

And I do have a single 'new' glasspack you can have for your car. You can try it and if you don't like the healthy sound of your new engine you can change it later.

[dhbfaster]

I might need that glass pack Roger...I'm being told 8 weeks to get a muffler in.:WHATTHE:

Man this time of the year is busy. I haven't had much time to do anything significant so I painted these under seat springs when I could squeeze in a few minutes here and there. I am surprised how well they came out. I thought it would be difficult to get paint to stick to a spring.
I soaked them in rustico for about a week and a half. Then scrubbed them with a red pad for a few minutes, then brushed some old paint off with a fine steel brush, cleaned it with the Eastwood Pre, stretched them over the nails for painting, then painted them with the Eastwood underhood black.
So far it looks like they came out great. I can stretch them out, twist them, or let them collapse an so far I have not seen any paint come off!

[Luva65wagon]

Consider it yours! You can get it when you have your starting party, or if you wanna do a midway pickup sometime before. Always willing to carry it all around in case you need it soonerer.

Also, I've had a Smitty muffler in my wagon for as long as I've had it. I like the sound.

[SmithKid]

You musta been eating your spinach. As I remember, those springs a fairly stiff.

[dhbfaster]

Ok, need some advice from the experts- I can't find a picture of how the small piece to the rear of the rear stuff plate goes in. :doh: See the attached pictures...I'm talking about the small aluminum piece with just one hole. Does it go in like I have it oriented in the picture but tuck under the stuff plate? There is a hole down inside where the black paint is, but it seems like it's very tight to cram this in there. A pic or good description would be most appreciated!! Thanks in advance as always: [BOW][BOW][BOW]

Meanwhile...Jeff, you are the man. [BOW][BOW][BOW] I heated up the back side of the edges with the heat gun and then put the weights on them...wow, it molded them even nicer than I thought. Thanks Jeff. Back in the thread the "before" pics showed about a half inch gap on the sides, and attached are the after pics with NO gap! Also...a pic of the wood pieces and the weights on them in case anyone else ever wants to do this. I installed the seat belts first so it held the carpet in place nicely. [BOW]

Man...progress seems slow lately. Hard to get any time this time of year and about to leave for the holidays to visit family. No complaints on that, but just want to get to the startup.

[ew1usnr]

Hello, Don.

It look like the little piece needs to be rotated 90-degrees clockwise.

I noticed that one of those pieces was shown next to the front kick panel in the film strip that you posted a link to.

Mine does not now have that piece. If it ever did, it was lost before I got the car.

It is interesting that your 1961 skuff plates are different than those on my 1963 model. Yours have a diamond pattern.

I was surprised to see that you had painted your under-seat retractor springs. They do look nice, but I confess that I never would have thought to do that.

How/why did the floor of the car come to be painted black? I would have thought that it would be painted red like the exterior of the car.

Dennis.

[dhbfaster]

Hi Dennis, I think I see what you mean about turning it 90 degrees. I took a look and found a screw hole that I missed because it was covered in black paint. I'll give it a try tomorrow (after the paint dries.)

The floor and all of the fender inside the car was originally red. When I first redid the floor we took off all the paint and tar, cleaned all the rust, treated it, and then painted gray POR product on it, including up on the fender a little ways. I left it gray. But, when I installed the back seat, I found the seat covered ALMOST everything-leaving a little gray peeking through that didn't look good. You could see just a little bit of the gray on the edges, and you could see the last bit behind the scuff plate left open...ah ha...then I remembered those little pieces go there. Anyway, I took the seat back out and then just painted a black strip there because black matches the rest of the inside of the car. I'm not sure what it's going to look like yet- it was covered with gray vinyl before. We'll see. If it looks good I'll leave it, if not, I'll try something else. Thanks for the help!:BEER:

[ew1usnr]

I see what you mean about turning it 90 degrees.

Hello, Don.

I am guessing, but you may have left and right pieces that are switched around. For this piece in the picture, move it to the other side of the car and rorate it 90-degrees clockwise.

5335

It might be that the flat end will then be against the door jamb and the slant end will be pointed to the interior (and not visa versa).

Or maybe not. It would be worth a try.

Dennis.

[dhbfaster]

Here's a couple pics with a better angle and one in the position I think it is supposed to be in...as you can see there is a screw hole behind there that something is supposed to screw into, but it still doesn't seem to fit just right- but it could be I just need to trim the end of the windlass a bit.

[dhbfaster]

Guys, the shop manual says the (3 on the tree speed manual) tranny should have 80wt fluid. It seems like 80wt is only used for motorcycles today?
Should I use that? Or use standard 80w-90 gear oil?
Advice appreciated as always![BOW][BOW]

[dhbfaster]

I did find this 75w80 oil below. Seems like it may be the one to fill up with. Any thoughts?


http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-4427-75W-80-GL-3/dp/B004FQ02D0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452958091&sr=8-1&keywords=Moly+gear+oil+80#productDetails

[ew1usnr]

I did find this 75w80 oil below. Seems like it may be the one to fill up with. Any thoughts?

The viscosity ranges that you mention range between 75 and 90 with an average of 80. It probably does got make any noticeable difference for the viscosity to be 10 below or above the average.

But, ... I mentioned to a mechanical engineer that I work with that I get gear whine from my differential at around 55 mph. It has been drained and re-filled with standard gear oil. He said that "Liquid Moly" would make it run quieter.

The Amazon description says the same thing: "Reduces transmission noise, low manual shifting effort."

The Moly might be better for that reason. It does cost $22.50 per liter (2 quarts). How many quarts does your transmission hold? Probably not much because your three-speed manual is not very big.

[dhbfaster]

Back in my Lube n Go days ('78-80)...I'm sure we put 80w90 in almost every diff and manual tranny. However, part of the reason I question this at all is that my son has a Nissan Xterra with a manual transmission. We had the transmission fluid changed, when it came back it seemed kind of "sticky" when going into 2nd gear. It didn't have this problem before the change. So, I checked the manual vs what the paperwork said was put in and the manual required (going by memory...80 vs 90). I took it back. They changed the fluid and put in an 80, and it worked perfectly. Also, keep in mind, the temperature is pretty cool here..rarely going over 90F for a few days in the summer.

The falcon always seemed to shift a little "sticky" when going from 1st to 2nd. This issue with the Nissan made me think about that and wonder if it might be related to the fluid. I already have plenty of Valvoline 80w90 limited slip gear oil on hand...but I checked the book and low and behold it says to use 80. I assume the 80w90 will "work" but I wonder...will the 75w80 be better. (It only takes 2.5 pints- so one quart is plenty.)

By the way....although it doesn't completely answer my question on this...I found this article enlightening... http://www.lubetrak.com/newsletter/jan10html.html
Now I know the difference between hypoid and non-hypoid and the EP rating. (None of which seems to be required for this tranny, but doesn't hurt.)

Now I have also found this Castrol 80w: http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/cars/manual-transmission-fluids/manual-vmx-80w.html
Have also found a couple others...but they only seem to be available in australia and new zealand. http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-VMX-80-Transaxle-Manual-Transmission-Fluid-1-Litre.aspx?pid=1582#Recommendations

Look forward to all thoughts on the subject...[BOW]doing honey-do's most of the day so little real falcon time....

[BadBird]

I can probably make this more confusing by adding my 2 cents. When I put my Tremec 5 speed in the car it had a note in large red letters that stated if I didn't use Amsoil Automatic Transmission Fluid my warranty would be voided.

I didn't understand why, so called their tech number. They said that newer transmissions with sychro's need additional lubrication that auto fluid gives. With older tranny's without synchro's the 75W-90W is what to use.

I would listen to NEWUSER1 in almost every case since with his engineering mind he will dig all the facts out. In my case, just stuff falls out.

Larry

[Luva65wagon]

Not sure this isn't too late, but use the 80/90W or 75-90W Gear Oil.

[dhbfaster]

Roger, I usually do wait for you to chime in...

So, this stuff is fine?
http://www.autozone.com/greases-and-gear-oil/gear-oil/valvoline-high-performance-gear-oil-sae-80w-90-1-gal-/972913_0_0/?checkfit=true

Ever seen a difference in the 75w-90? If not, I'll just go with the 80-90- stuff above since it's already on my shelf.

(Larry, I do know some manual trannys use auto transmission fluid- and I know that this is not one of them.)

[BOW][BOW]

[Luva65wagon]

Roger, I usually do wait for you to chime in...

Ah man - then you'll never get this done! :rain:

I suspect this oil is way better than they had in 60-65. It will be fine. Too thin and you might find seals not holding back the seepage of oil past them. They barely do as it is.

[dhbfaster]

Roger, Don't worry, if you were really holding me up :ROTFLMAO: and I didn't want to make a decision without you....I would call your cell! :3g:

But, unfortunately there are plenty of other things to do! :bicker:

The good news is I expect this weekend to be a falcon weekend- the first in a while, so I hope to make good progress. :D

[Luva65wagon]

Good luck!

Getting outside to do anything is tough these days. Too cold out there unless there is real work to do where I can stay warm. Instead staying inside and organizing all my "got to sell" stuff.

[dhbfaster]

That's for sure. Fortunately this weekend....trying to finish the carpet, kick panels and as much under the dash stuff as I can...Using a big in-efficient light in there that cranks out 1600watts...:oand turns the inside of the falcon into a sauna in no time. :shift: If I get done with that, it will have warmed up the entire garage by then.

[dhbfaster]

Whew....not getting much falcon work done. The day job seems to be moving into the evening more often than not lately.

I've been having a heck of a time getting the inside kick panels to fit right over the carpet. For one thing the holes are in the wrong place....:doh::doh: One way or another I hope to get those done this weekend.

BUT, at least I picked up my exhaust pipe today from the ceramic coater. Here it is on top of my Acura...I think it looks pretty nice, and it's the original one piece and will hopefully last longer than new aluminized. Time will tell. It was about the same cost- but no shipping. This old pipe is quite thick too- really solid. They also did the bracket for me. If I get it on this weekend, I'll order the muffler monday.

As you can imagine I got a few funny looks at the grocery store. :WHATTHE:

[SmithKid]

Looking good, Don. How close are you getting to STARTUP? Maybe you need to schedule a "tech day" and several of us could maybe help you with some of the odds and ends

[dhbfaster]

A tech day to help finish up a few things is a great idea Gene. :rocker: Scheduling is the question...

I hope to get a few things done this weekend and get a lot closer (honey-do's are always a priority...but my wife is visiting her Mom). Jason should be over tomorrow to help for a few hours too. Unfortunately I'm on a business trip all week. Gotta pay the bills. After that, maybe I will know enough about the upcoming weekend schedule.

By the way, I got the driveshaft back from SeaTac Transmission yesterday, and they didn't charge me a dime. Great owners there, these guys have always taken care of me and work has always been great. Still owned by the same family for 51 years...about the same age as the falcon!:shift:

[dhbfaster]

Well....didn't get much time in yesterday, but small forward movement. Driveshaft is in and seems to be correct. Sure is pretty under there right now.
I do see that I still need to adjust the parking brake nut.

[dhbfaster]

Guys, does the headlight switch (and fuse box) install with the fuse side oriented down? up? or sideways?

I don't seem to have a pic of the far left side of the under dash. Common sense would say fuses down so you can get to them...but the way the wires are twisted seems to be implying fuses up. :confused:

Thanks in advance...[BOW][BOW]

[Luva65wagon]

It was a silly idea to put them there in the first place... so of course they point upward.

I think they expected you to pull the dash away to access them.

No, really.

:confused:

[dhbfaster]

After I gave up and moved on to the wiper cable installation...I saw that the light switch goes into the same bracket and the bracket is slotted where the light switch so that a small key on the light switch goes into the slot a certain way. (A very small slot...and not a very big key. I think you could still put it in the wrong way without much effort.)
So...right or wrong, based on that key orientation feature, the fuses are now facing the drivers side-ie. towards the outside of the car. :WHATTHE:
Thanks for the quick response Roger [BOW][BOW]...I'll leave it the way it is for now.
For some reason my new knob and post for the light switch sticks out a little further (maybe 1/8") than the old one...not really noticeable though.

[Luva65wagon]

Interesting. Facing left huh? Last non-molested early Falcon I worked on in this area was Caro/Allie's '63 convertible (that'll clue some into how long ago 'that' was). I messed with their neutral safety switch mess and a blown fuse on something. Can't remember what. Maybe theirs were off a notch, but I dropped the dash and they were accessed that way. That's why my '63 Ranchero got a fuse box upgrade and '65 headlight switch.

Anyway, sounds like you would be constrained by that notch.

They are still silly!

;)

[dhbfaster]

Mannnnnn.....I felt like I was trying to solve a Rubik's cube trying to get that ignition switch and lock mechanism in....then just about the time I said to myself "am I gonna need help from Roger on this too?" Like magic, a power from above sent something through my arm, into my fingers, and click...it went in. [yay]
"Thank you Falcon Gods!" [BOW]:D[BOW]
So, everything left of the steering wheel under the dash is in. [yay]

[Luva65wagon]

Hay hey. I'm not the only one here. But I appreciate you drawing on my powers in your time of need.

[BOW] I say...

[dhbfaster]

Now now....I did say "Gods" (plural).[BOW]:BEER:

[dhbfaster]

Advisors...a couple quick questions please:
- For the radio- there are two black wires that come out of it (that are not the speaker wires). Obviously one is power and goes to the switch, the other goes further back inside and to a copper plate on the inside of the case. Are both of these to be hooked to power? The wiring diagram doesn't seem to be clear on this and this part of the wiring was kind of messed up previously.:confused:

- For the new defroster hoses in the pic, am I supposed to put hose clamps on these? or should I just use some of the 3M door gasket glue?:confused:

Got all the dash cables on the right side of the instrument panel installed....which is pretty good because by this time of day I think the knobs have a higher IQ than I do! :doh:

thanks in advance for any advice...

[ew1usnr]

Hello, Don.

One of the wires is for the radio is for power and the other is for the radio light bulb. The light bulb wire ties in with your instrument panel lights so that your radio light will adjust bright and dim along with your instrument panel.

For your air ducts, maybe hose clamps.

Mine are just stuck up there. But, .... I noticed that there is not any defroster air coming up from the left vent so my duct must have fallen off. Dang it.

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

Agree on the wiring as Dennis indicated. You should have extra blue/red trace wires for instrument lights available for this. One might also have had a cigar lighter light accessory using this same wire.

Ducts to the horns were usually stapled and permanent, the other end was only friction since they were facing downward. They fit snugly enough that no clamp was used.

[dhbfaster]

Roger, blue w white wire...schematic says that is for the cigar lighter.
Only one wire left...blue w red, and that's the triple female. So, I have to assume both radio wires go into that. The schematic is not clear to me on the radio itself, but it is clear that the radio light goes to blue w red. So...ill try it.

Now a question on the radio itself. I started to play with it a bit on the bench and it seems like the tuning knob works when turning to get the indicator to the right (clockwise), but when I turn it left, it seems to slip and the indicator won't go left. I have to use a preset button to get the needle left. Why???
[BOW]

[Luva65wagon]

Blue w/red are instrument lights. My comment re cigar lighter is about adding a clip-on light for it - not to power it. This so you could see the hole at night and not fumble around burning holes in your dash paint. We know how you like to light them cigars. You have the 3-female connection to allow adding this light, the light connection to the radio, and maybe a light to shine on the floor. That too was an accessory back then.


Powering the radio you can run a fused wire from the center lug of the key switch. That's the ACC lug. Make up that wire yourself. I doubt it was a part of the harness if you can't find it.


Radios use a cord wrapped around the tuning knob stud about 3-times to grip and move the tuning capacitor. That requires a lot of friction as that cord has to travel from the tuning capacitor to the knob and up to the needle telling you the station and then back to the tuning capacitor. Over time all of these moving parts dry out needing lube and the friction from the cord isn't enough to overcome it. It always slips going left because the cord is tied on one end with a spring to keep the cord taught - ands when going left it lessens the spring tension ever so slightly. Pop the cover and apply some light oil on all the rotating parts that cord is trying to move. Do not get lube on the cord though. The cord isn't supposed to stretch or the spring get weaker over normal lifespan. We also may have exceeded that, but lubing things may be enough. Fingers crossed.


Good luck.*




Roger Moore -

RacerMate Inc.

[dhbfaster]

Roger...[BOW][BOW] (with apologies to Steve) you are the Falcon God.
I read that and I was like "how does he know this stuff..."
Yep, everything makes sense now. So per the wiring diagram, I think I have the cigar lighter right, and the radio (which by the way was previously (very poorly) tapped into the wire to the cigar lighter) should go straight to the ACC post with it's own fuse. Makes sense. Now I just need to confirm whether it's the front black wire that powers the radio or the back wire- which should be easy enough.
What you say about the tuner makes sense too. I used to have an old Grundig set in my bedroom when I was a kid and the tuner worked like that. As soon as I read what your post I was like "of course..."
So, the radio itself seems like a mini project. I bought the in-line fuse housing and fuse today so I think I'll get the wire all set in the dash, make sure the brackets are in correctly...and leave the radio out to play with later.
Priority now is to get everything set so I can get the engine running. I should be able to finish the rest of the dash and glove box tomorrow, and maybe get the front seats in...then get back to to finish off the engine compartment throughout the evenings next week. Getting closer!!!:3g::3g::3g: It's driving me crazy, I wish I had a week off to finish this thing.

[dhbfaster]

Falcon Gods...does the choke cable (please see the red arrows in the pic) normally go OVER the cross member as in my attached before pic with the red arrows pointing to the cross member? or does the choke cable go UNDER it?

It seems to more naturally flow OVER it as it was before, but I prefer not to have it skuff up my new paint job....and when I looked in google images I couldn't find any choke cables going over as in this picture.

Also, anyone know if it's ok to use the orange five year coolant such as Penzoil Dex cool in these old radiators? It is ethylene glycol based like the green stuff.

As always, big thanks in advance! [BOW]

[dhbfaster]

Ok, God's have been silent so far today :WHATTHE:....but I think I've answered my own questions on this one. I found a few articles on antifreeze, but I think I'm going with the advice from the guy in the article below and use the stuff originally used for the car...the standard green stuff which is probably fine for a few years anyway.
http://blog.chiltondiy.com/2013/06/which-antifreeze-is-right-for-your-vehicle/

Meanwhile, I poked around a little more with the manual choke cable...it almost seems like it has to go over not under. Let me know if I'm wrong! I think I'm going to get a small sheet of that paint protective plastic to put over the paint where the cable rubs.

[BadBird]

I looked at quite a few stock falcon engine bays on the internet and it looks like most have the cable going over the support. There is a good pic of this Falcon on ebay that shows it going over the top.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Falcon-Futura-/172101604927?forcerrptr=true&hash=item28120e163f:g:CKcAAOSwKtlWs9dw&item=172101604927

I am definitely not a Falcon God, but of the articles I perused about the orange Dex Cool, it was mentioned as being affective for the newer GM cars but was talked down for older cars. For safety of the engine, I would go like you mention and stick with the brand suggested for the Ford. Larry

[dhbfaster]

Larry...you're definitely a Falcon God in my book...;)
Looking at original falcons on ebay....that's genius. I think that clears it up. It has to go over. Thanks for the note on the Dex...glad to have a little confirmation on my thoughts there.

[ew1usnr]

I found a few articles on antifreeze, but I think I'm going with the advice from the guy in the article below and use the stuff originally used for the car...the standard green stuff which is probably fine for a few years anyway.

Hello, Don.

Use the old fashioned green anti-freeze (not universal yellow) and change it every two years. This is from my notes:

"The original green coolant is called Group 1 and contains quick-acting silicate and phosphate corrosion inhibitors for both iron and aluminum surfaces. It has a short life and must be change every other year but is less expensive and works better with brass/copper radiators and heater cores. Group 2 (yellow) is recommended for aluminum engines and radiators. It does not contain silicates or phosphates and can be changed at 150,000 if it is not mixed Group 1 coolant."

Dennis.

[Jeff W]

Page 1-12 of the Ford Falcon manual shows the cable below the cross member.

Also, I want that battery!

[ew1usnr]

Page 1-2 of the Ford Falcon manual shows below.

Also, I want that battery!

The picture also shows Roger's heater hose strap.

That is a cool battery.

[dhbfaster]

Well..... :WHATTHE: Jeff, I probably flipped by that pic 200 times since I had that book and didn't think to look at it. That's what I get for working so late. And that's why I have the Falcon Gods! Thanks.
So, I gave it a try. It's got a slight bend to it that does add some friction- especially since I ran the hose that way....which seems to be different from that picture too, but I do think it's a cleaner run on the left. I have a hunch the added friction is why people tend to put them over the top. Of course, that pic seems to be an artists rendition...I have to wonder which way they were in production. Anyway, it seems to work for now. If it gets too sticky I can always change it. Thanks all!
A pic attached....and what do you guys think of my hose strap reproduction? That's the original metal ends from the old strap, painted, then with some new conveyor belt material a place gave me and new screws. I think it looks pretty good!

Meanwhile...the dash is about done. Only thing left are the turn signals and parking brake. I think it's starting to look like I might get there some day...

I also finally got the engine fuel line on tonight...should have all the hoses and lines hooked up tomorrow night. My goal is to have the engine compartment done (pre-startup inspection) except for the brake lines by Friday eve. Should be pretty close....we'll see. I'm out to Vancouver for a hockey game with the family this weekend....but after that I'm back at it.

[Jeff W]

I think the longer hose that doesn't go to the carb spacer is supposed to go on the drivers side of the carb. My valve cover (at least one I had) has a stud for a hose holding clamp.

I think leaving it where it is may interfere with your throttle linkage

The rest looks just awesome. You are doing some great work.

[dhbfaster]

Thanks for that note Jeff...I noticed last night that in the pic you posted from the manual it is on the valve cover side and it seems to have a clip there.

I was going off a "before" picture I took - attached. Mine does not have a clip there for the hose (any more?) Hard to say how it was when new, but I'm going to give it a try on the valve cover side tonight and see how it works. Thanks![BOW]

[Luva65wagon]

Sorry, us (Oh My) Gawds have been a little under the gun of late.

The issue with the choke cable is one of access. If the access is direct above, it goes above - if below, it's below. I think it has changed over the years based upon the carburetor installed. Though I don't have an image in my head of each carburetor and their choke cable connection, or height of each carburetor, which could affect this, the rule should be to route the cable that allows it to head directly to its source without adding any kinks or sharp bends or making contact with moving or hot items. Not always easily possible, but it is the rule. In this case the sweeping bend it takes is benign, but it would perhaps be more intense in the distance between the brace and carburetor if not a direct hit.

Choke cable from the factory would have been sleeved where they contact (or could contact) some other item to keep them from rubbing themselves raw. Most after-market replacement cables are bare metal end-to-end. The plastic sleeve does get brittle over time, so it's not surprising to see a factory cable without it, especially past the firewall where it is baking above the manifold. If it flows over the top of the support, I think your plan for the clear rocker panel material is brilliant.

Go GREEN!

[dhbfaster]

Gawd (I kind of like that Roger) any thoughts on the routing of the long heater hose?
[BOW][BOW]

[Jeff W]

Here is a picture of the engine under my bench. Note the stud and hose bracket.

[Luva65wagon]

Here's the bracket Jeff mentioned in-use on my wagon. You have to have the stud on the valve cover to do this. I think they all had them even that early and haven't gone back through all your thread page images to see if you've posted this view recently.

5512

This side shows the other hose, but it now feeds a water-based choke housing instead of heating the carburetor base like yours does. The red part on the hose just keeps the hose from rubbing on the fuel line and transferring heat from the hose to the fuel line as well.

5513

[Jeff W]

Roger - I think I see a light sprinkling of dust on top of your blower motor. You may want to get in there with a microfiber and get that taken care of...:banana:

[Luva65wagon]

You're funny. Though I did, in-fact, see that in the picture today and thought to myself - "I out to clean that."

:rain:

[Jeff W]

You're funny. Though I did, in-fact, see that in the picture today and thought to myself - "I out to clean that."

:rain:

I guess once you win the Regional Award for "Best Engine Compartment" the only way to go is down.

[ew1usnr]

I guess once you win the Regional Award for "Best Engine Compartment" the only way to go is down.

Roger does have a clean engine compartment. :)

[dhbfaster]

Guys, thanks for the distraction. Yesterday morning I ended up taking my wife to the ER :WHATTHE: because she was buckled over in pain like I'd never seen before....to make a long story short, it turned out she had appendicitis - so, they did the surgery last night and I finally took her home from the hospital this afternoon and she is just fine now. Maybe a higher God was watching over both of us yesterday...but poking into the forum now and then over the last couple days was a great way to get my mind off the situation for a few minutes here and there- so, thanks for that to all of you guys. [BOW]

Meanwhile, I'm a little behind on the engine compartment, but our other weekend plans were cancelled, so I suspect I'll have at least a little chance to catch up this weekend. :rocker:

Back to business...based on the previously matching paint scheme and history in the family...pretty sure my valve cover is original and it does not have a clip (hose holder) or place for the bolt on top. It seems like the bottom line is that as long as I run the heater hoses and the choke cable in a way that has no interference with the function of anything it's going to be fine...:banana:

[ew1usnr]

they did the surgery last night and I finally took her home from the hospital this afternoon and she is just fine now.

I'm glad that your wife came through it alright.

That is amazing how quickly all that was accomplished.
It makes me think of the pit crews at Daytona:

5514

[Luva65wagon]

Wow Don. So happy she's OK. Certainly happy to hear that. Things like that always put things into perspective. When it comes to improvements in medical science its good we live now and not even 100 years ago.

I guess they found the hose was wearing out the paint and made a bracket for it. But yeah, keep it out of the moving bits and you'll be fine.

And for the record... it was best 6 cylinder engine. ;)

[dhbfaster]

Whew...all is well, but I think it might have been easier at the hospital. :eek:
You sure don't feel like you're in a Nascar pit stop when you are there waiting- I was thinking it felt more like a Seattle traffic jam at the time, but looking back, it's pretty amazing how it all got done in a day. Now the work is all in the recovery phase and everything is going fine.

I got a few hours into the garage last night, but have you guys ever lost something in your garage and then spend hours cleaning your garage trying to find it? then still not find it? :doh: Of course whatever you lose shows up right after you finally give up and buy another one. I thought I was organized, but apparently not.

[BadBird]

A couple of years ago, I looked for at least three hours to find a valve stem removal tool, I knew I had one, looked in every tool box and finally gave up. Went to Schucks bought a new one fixed the tire, put the new one in my tool box right next to the old one I couldn't find. I looked in that drawer at least 3 times. I still think Carol hid it for awhile.

When I was installing the engine in my car. I had just put it into the engine bay and was removing the lift tool that mounts to the intake manifold. I dropped a bolt, but didn't see which way it went. Spent hours looking for it, had Carol and my son look. Finally decided it went down the intake. Tried finding it with a magnet. Nothing, so before taking off the intake I crawled under the car for one last look. It was inside the engine lift support leg. It had to bounce 6 inches to get there.
That is why I don't have much hair. Larry

[dhbfaster]

Yea, just went through everything again. Oh well, Melvins here I come. Someone's hot to keep these guys in business.

Hey, I'm having a hard time visualizing how to cut the hole in the carpet for where the parking brake mounts to the firewall. Can anyone share a pic? Dennis?

Anyone know where I can get new clips for the wire harness gage feed? There like 8 of these things and they are rusty, have torn up rubber and look like a pain to clean up. Pic of a few of them below.

Thanks[BOW][BOW]

[Luva65wagon]

I usually take clips like this, if I can't buy new ones, and pull all the plastic off of them and then dip them into CLR for a couple days. That eats all the rust off and then I paint and then get some Plati-Dip and renew the protection. if the edges are too rusted away I put a sleeve of heat-shrink over it first, then dip them. If they are out of site, that's a reasonable thing.

Can you pull one off and give a profile view? I have a lot of clips I've pulled over the years. Some are in great shape, but I can't tell from your pic what yours look like.

Don't hesitate to look for Mustang Vendors to get parts. They usually have a lot more of this sort of thing. Melvins I've found to have more than any other Falcon vendor though - if you don't mind the wait and shipping. And they do love it when you lose parts.

I search all of the time for stuff I know I have only to finally recall I gave it to someone or sold it at the swap meet. Once I looked for days for my small Snap-On flat-blade screwdriver. Finally gave up on it. Then one night as I'm trying to shut my brain down to go to sleep, which is a very hard thing for me to do, I got an image of where it is. Have not pulled my rear seat out and the rear interior door panels on the wagon to retrieve it. I'm pretty sure that's where I'll find it.

:o

[ew1usnr]

I'm having a hard time visualizing how to cut the hole in the carpet for where the parking brake mounts to the firewall. Can anyone share a pic? Dennis?

Hello, Don.

I didn't cut any holes. The top edge of the carpet stopped at the bottom of the parking brake bracket and overlapped it just a bit.

Dennis.

[Luva65wagon]

I forgot earlier... I was going to mention on this too.

Because the e-brake cable comes upward behind the carpet you really can't fasten the carpet down with the e-brake bits. It should end just below it so you can feed the cable into the roller and then handle and still get the clip onto the end of the cable housing. You'll need to peel back the carpet to help facilitate this. The carpet should be held up with the kick panels and the rubber donut on the steering column.

[dhbfaster]

Ok, pics of the clips attached. They are not great due to taking them in the garage with low light, but I think they are good enough. Three styles I am looking for:

Syle R: pic 5701 were in a bag labeled (by Phil) "Rear Rocker Panel." I'm not sure, but I think they go in the trunk...? Haven't had a chance to hunt around yet, but if I can find someplace with clips- I need these too.

Two types on the gage feed harness
Style G1: Pics 5707, 5707(1), and 5716

Style G2: Pics 5710, 5711, 5712(1), 5712, and 5715

Hope this helps. I started looking at mustang sites today...so far haven't found them but these have got to be out there somewhere...otherwise, I just have to clean them up like you said. I did that with some other clips and they come out great, but it IS a - "mini project":WHATTHE:

ON the parking brake...got it. Thanks.

[BOW][BOW]

[PhilC]

I check in once in a while. ;)

The clips in the bag I labeled attach to the pinch weld under the sill plates where the harness runs to the back of the vehicle on the driver's side.

[dhbfaster]

Got it...thanks Phil. Any idea where I can find the other clips?

[Luva65wagon]

I have a lot of these clips, but those don't look any worse than the ones I have. I have no new ones. I would be cleaning and painting those if they were mine.

The one with the double hoop is for along the front cowl. The smaller loop is for routing the smaller windshield washer hose, if the car had that option.

Now that I see them I will look to see if I have any in really pristine condition.

[dhbfaster]

OK...Tech Day.! [thumb][yay]

When: Saturday Morning March 5th, starting at 9am-ish

The way I understand it tech days have two sides to it- learning by those who need to learn something (and helping someone with their car) and teaching by those with the wisdom and skills and desire to share their knowledge.
(As a minimum, Roger will be there.) :BEER:

I'm working really hard to get Granddad's Falcon running before I have to leave town for a while, and basically what I have left is:

--Starting the engine for the first time! (and everything that goes along with that):shift: :NERVOUS: (Yes, Roger will be there....)

--Bending the brake line for the dual master cylinder.

--Door locks, and installation of interior door panels

--And a few other miscellaneous things to install that I could easily screw up like the mirrors.

I'm not looking to have a party yet (we'll save that for this summer when the car is done) but if any club member would like like to mentor or help with any of the above or if anyone wants to learn about the above topics so they can do it on their own car...I would love to have the participation and promise to feed you donuts or apple fritters (regardless of whether or not you need them.):D

If you're interested leave a posting on this thread or send me a PM. My house is in Federal Way. I'll PM you my address and this will give me a count so I can plan how many donuts to buy...


Back on the clips...Roger, no worries. My clips are all restorable...and not critical path to starting the engine. I can do them later. I do know where they all go because I left them on the old wire harness...

[BadBird]

If everything goes okay, I will be there. I will bring my tube bending equipment. Electrical and hand tools. Anything else you need us to bring? Larry

[ew1usnr]

Starting the engine for the first time! (and everything that goes along with that)

Hello, Don.

Could you possibly video the 144's first start and post it on YouTube? I would like to see that.

Example video of first start a 1950 Mercury in 20 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyj7Yluxfnc

Thanks, Dennis.

[PhilC]

Got it...thanks Phil. Any idea where I can find the other clips?
Not really, a lot of these clips are no longer produced. Might find some at places specializing in restoration type hardware, but they don't usually come cheap.

[SmithKid]

This place specializes in that stuff, but don't know if they have what you want. lotsa newer stuff.

http://www.clipsandfasteners.com/

[dhbfaster]

Larry: that is AWESOME! I'm excited to have you over. rocker:
It would be fantastic if we can get the brake lines all bent and into place and prime the MC. I have one of those cheap bench primers do I need anything else to bench prime the MC?

Also Larry- I have two nice mirrors for the doors. I'd really like your help/mentoring for installing those- I'm not sure what kind of drill bit to use for that...nor am I sure how to do it without messing up the rest of the door when I go to start drilling....:eek:


Kenny Not sure if you have been following lately...but in case you were thinking about coming down next Saturday- If you had time to make a set of stencils for the FORD on the hub caps...I could get those hub caps painted.
By the way- the "FORD" on mine is white? Anyone know what kind of white and what kind of paint?

Dennis What time do I pick you up at the airport?

Roger Rookie question: How do we get the fuel up through the dry lines to the carb the first time? Is just a can of starter fluid enough to get this done? Doesn't seem like it would be.

Battery Question: I went to pick up a battery today (they are on sale at AutoZone) and the one the system notes for my car doesn't have any features on the long ends of the battery for my 1961 battery tray to clamp on to.
http://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/battery/duralast-gold-battery/ford/falcon/1961/6-cylinders-2-4l-1bl/832327_322164_0/?checkfit=true
Its the 24-DLG model. The one at Orilieys is the same way.
Anyone run into this problem before? Any recommendations on a battery that will fit right? Nathan?

Gene Thanks for the link: I looked through that clip website but didn't find them. I think I'll just get to restoring these - maybe this weekend.

[BOW]

[BadBird]

I also have a cheap harbor freight bench primer. The only thing I think we would need is a bench vise.
I will admit to embarrassment concerning my mirror installations. My car only had one on the driver side. So, I decided to add another. I took exact measurements from the driver door and laid them out on the passenger door. All this with the doors off the car before I painted the car.
Only problem is, where the passenger side mirror is prevents the driver from seeing anything. It aligns perfectly with the door front post.
When my darling wife rides along, which is almost always, she uses it for me.
I will try to do a better job on yours if I can work up the nerve.
Hope the weather is good, and hope I have my car ready to drive down there.
Larry

[ew1usnr]

[SIZE=4].. where the passenger side mirror is prevents the driver from seeing anything. It aligns perfectly with the door front post.

Hello, Don.
You might not want to automatically assume that you need a mirror on the right.

Reasons:
a. The vent window to blocks the view of the mirror. They work on new cars because new cars do not have vent windows.
b. The right side mirror is not worth much unless it is a wide angle version.
c. Falcons did not come with external mirrors. They were an after-market or dealer add on. The following advertisement does not show mirrors on the left or right.

5526

The previous owner had installed a left mirror and non-wide angle right mirror on The Wonder Falcon. I ended up deciding that the right side mirror was useless and removed it.

[dhbfaster]

Larry, I do have a bench vise.

Dennis, Larry, I do see this potential problem. It did not have mirrors when new and my Granddad installed one on the drivers side fender- it was completely worthless and I always thought it made the car look lopsided. When I got the falcon two years ago that mirror had no chrome left so I got rid of it. Also, when I drove the falcon, I felt naked without mirrors! You get so used to what mirrors do for you that when they are gone...naked. So I looked around and found the nice period correct mirrors that I have. Difficult to tell for sure, but they look like the ones on Patrick's (white) car in the pic at the top of the forum website. I like the look even if I can't see out of them...

Dennis, it looks like that couple in the picture are about to have a hot date! I bet that guy wishes he would have had the bench seat.

[Jeff W]

Mirror location. Make sure the location doesn't interfere with the opening of the vent window prior to drilling. This is true for both sides I guess.

[ew1usnr]

Mirror location. Make sure the location doesn't interfere with the opening of the vent window prior to drilling. This is true for both sides I guess.

This where my father put a mirror on his new 1966 Fairlane. (I'm wearing the white sport coat). :)

5527


Dennis, it looks like that couple in the picture are about to have a hot date! I bet that guy wishes he would have had the bench seat.

Bench seats are cool! [thumb]

[SmithKid]

Don, hope this isn't too late to help you. I recently replaced the battery on my car. (I believe it was a 24f). It has the little projections for holding it down. I got it at the Everett Home Depot, of all places, and was quite reasonably priced at $94 +$12 (core)(refundable) +tax (Exide brand).

[SmithKid]

Don & Larry, I have both L&R side mirrors on my car and wouldn't want to be without them, though they aren't as useful as on a Non-winged car. The rear fenders are in the way, so I kinda aim them further to the sides, and they are actually helpful. Zoom in on my signature pic... they don't interfere with the wing-window operation.

[BadBird]

Gene, totally agree about both mirrors. Just wish I would have realized what I was doing with my passenger side mirror. I feel blind without that mirror.
In the old days when these cars came out, you didn't have very many multiple lane roads. Most were 2 lane roads and didn't require as much checking for traffic behind you on the right.
In todays freeway or multiple lanes, I need that right mirror to check traffic.
We will just take the time to get Don's in the correct spots prior to drilling holes through that shiny new paint.

Larry

[dhbfaster]

Gene,
[yay][yay]
I tried Napa today (when I bought the brake line and some other stuff)...no luck on the battery there, but I just checked the Home Depot website and looked at the 24f and those features are there in the picture!,:banana:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Extreme-24F-Auto-Battery-24FX/204852594

Thanks Gene!

Meanwhile my muffler came in today....I haven't taken it out to the falcon yet but I'm almost positive it's too big:mad:

[PhilC]

A few tips when you do the mirrors. Mask the area around where you think they might go before placing a mirror in position. You need to be sitting in the car as you would be while driving. This is why I didn't install them here, could not do it without you and the interior. ;)

Have a helper place the mirror where you get the best view without compromising vent window function. Once you determine the best possible spot, and while holding the mirror in place, mark the hole location on the tape.

Use a sharp 1/8" bit to start the hole and step up from there for the threaded insert again insuring you use a sharp bit. Once the holes are drilled, remove the tape and set the threaded inserts.

I don't recall which inserts I sent home with you, but use a bit that will let it slide into the hole without forcing it. Although a little forgiving, try not to oversize the hole.

Repeat for the passenger side.

If someone coming to your tech day has a rivnut tool, ask them to bring it along so you can set the threaded inserts. I highly recommend blue loctite on the screws for an added measure of protection. [thumb]

[dhbfaster]

Thanks for the tips Phil[BOW]

My new muffler came in...it's too big.:doh::doh::doh:
Il have to call the guy tomorrow. Any problem starting up without a muffler Roger?

Got the front seat in...looks really nice. Finished buffing one of the long stainless pieces that goes over the door...also came out great.:)

Jason got the parking brake on...but the cable seems too tight. :mad: I think I'll save that one for you guys yo look at Saturday...I don't see anything obvious wrong.

Battery fit perfect! [yay]

Literally 10 minutes before my Melvins order showed up yesterday I accidentally found the two parts I was looking for...meanwhile two of the parts I did need are back ordered!

Two steps forward and one step back.:o

[Luva65wagon]

Man,

Away from the computer a couple days and the entire world passes you by.

Let's see...

Mirrors - I have them on both sides on both cars. On the Ranchero they are the standard round Falcon mirrors. On the wagon I installed the round Mustang-style adjustable mirror set (DS only is adjustable). Both cars have a large blind-spot mirror on them on the passenger side. I installed both sides like this and I can see the mirrors fine and the wings open almost 100 degrees from closed on the Ranchero, which is plenty to force air in for the 1960's air conditioning:

5530
Ranchero PS

My wagon I installed them rearward of the wing just enough to open them.

5531
5532
5533

Never took specific images of them, but the above are what I can grab from where I'm at.

I have a thread-sert tool, but be prepared to have at least 1/4" holes drilled to accept these mirror-sized screws, which I use 10-32 counter-sunk Stainless screws when I do it.

Fuel from the tank? I left my electric fuel pump with Gene not thinking it would be needed and he's on the road again. I think we can fill the fuel bowl to start the car and it should suck gas up plenty fast while running with all new tight lines.

We are breaking in the cam too, right?

I have some pre-bent brake lines I use to bench-bleed the M/C. But Larry, bring what you have too. Between the both of us we should be able to get that wrapped up assuming nobody else is gonna make it and help out.

No problem starting without the muffler. Do you have the tail-pipe on at least? You want me to bring the Cherry Bomb? That would sound very nice.

I have the cigar lighter element too. What else have I promised I am forgetting for the next time we meet-up? I'll bring my bag-o-clips just in case.

You got a good voltmeter?

E-brake? We'll have a look.

Dennis, I can pick you up at the airport on the way to Don's place

[redfalken]

Kenny Not sure if you have been following lately...but in case you were thinking about coming down next Saturday- If you had time to make a set of stencils for the FORD on the hub caps...I could get those hub caps painted.
By the way- the "FORD" on mine is white? Anyone know what kind of white and what kind of paint?

Sorry, I keep meaning to reply and something always comes up. I plan on heading down for a few hours. Looking forward to seeing all your hard work up close and lending a hand.

I would go to the link http://redfalken.com/pages/fordhubs.html and print it out yourself. Right-click on the letter art at the top and save the image. Then open it with whatever you use for photos and print at 75% to start. The reason you need to do it is to check how your printer matches up to the letters on your hubcap. All printers print a little different and you might need to increase or decrease it a percentage or two so it matches exactly.

Then you will need to get some frisket film to make the mask. I worked at a print shop when I did mine and "borrowed" a sheet from the art department but don't have any leftover. I'm not sure if Office Depot would have it or you might check an art supply store. Also need a sharp X-Acto knife.

Paint should be a good self-etching primer and matching topcoat. I used SEM brand and it has held up well. I'm not sure about the white vs. black lettering. At one time I thought I remembered someone saying white was used on the truck line but I don't know for sure. I looked in my Ray Miller book and didn't see any mention of it. I would say to use whatever color goes best with the color scheme.

So it takes a lot of fiddling and some supplies most people don't have laying around but I'll be glad to cut the letters out and paint the caps while I'm there. Or I'm sure there are lots of things on your punch list to keep me busy!

[redfalken]

PM your address and let me know if you think you'll need any special tools. I have a few in my collection!

[SmithKid]

Roger, CS could get the pump for you.

[dhbfaster]

Ok guys, It was honey do's tonight (especially since my wife can't lift much yet) so I can focus on falcon stuff tomorrow. By the way, did I mention that the hospital bill was $47,000! :doh: That doesn't even include the surgeon. Looks like after insurance I have to pay out $4000 regardless. Fortunately my wife is priceless.:D That's another two months of work before retirement (15 years from now at this rate).

Roger-
I'll check the hole sizes and screws for the mirrors tomorrow. Do I need any special kind of bit? I was thinking about buying a couple new ones to make sure they are sharp.

Yes, the cam is freshly machined so looks like we will be breaking that in.

I did order a cigar element from Melvins (and it came in.) Looks great.

Muffler guy didn't answer the phone today...yes I do have the pipe on and it goes back to the gas tank. The pipe is 1.75" diameter outside if you want to bring your cherry bomb!

A good Volt meter- I have always used my Grandfathers may tag volt meter and find it works great.:D (of course I usually only use it to read volts...nothing fancy) That would be kind of cool if we could use it. Pic attached. If we need a better one however, I can borrow one from work or bring yours if you are used to it.

I have a 25' roll of brake line. I have a new (never used it) bending and flare kit but do we need some kind of tool to make this stuff straight?

Do we need an oil pressure gage?

Kenny
Really excited that you are coming! :3g::3g:
I will play with the size and buy some fritting tomorrow. Looks like Amazon has some pretty cheap. The letters on the 1961 hub caps were white. I was wondering what specific flavor of white I should buy. Any thoughts? The roof is corinthian white but I'm not sure I'll be able to find that.

Phil? Any thoughts on the white? I'll look at paints at the parts stores later this week.

I feel like a kid getting ready for xmas day. [BOW]

[SmithKid]

Really sorry I'm not gonna be there for the big day. Watching you (through this Forum) brings back the same memories to me. I enjoyed LOTS of help from these guys, and SO much appreciate all they've done. So... I'll be thinking of you all day.

[Luva65wagon]

That is a very cool volt meter. Make sure the battery is good (used mostly for ohms side) and we'll use it just fine.

I would use Rustoleum satin white for the letters. You can get it anywhere and it is durable as heck. Takes hours to dry, but the finish is not flat - and not ultra shiny... and will last a long time. I rarely use primer with it and have never had it come off as long as it is cleaned with Acetone before spraying. But etching primer won't hurt.

I'll measure the glass-pack, but just danging it on the pipe will make the run-time more tolerable.

OK on the cam. This means it needs to run right and long the first time. Usually a good 20 minute run needs to be possible to fully break-in and harden the cam lobes.

I have a few oil pressure gauges in my gauge bin. We should plumb one in to make sure you have oil pressure. You can then shift over to the dash system later.

So you have no brake lines in right now? If so, that's a lot of bending, but I have benders too I can bring. It unfurls straight enough without much help... usually.

The Thread-sert tool is like a pop-rivit gun, but inserts threads - not sheet-metal thread, but machine screw threads. I pop in a pair of 10-32 thread-serts and then make sure to have long enough SS screws for the mirror, plus a 1/2" more.

Will be watching the thread closer in case there is other stuff to bring.

[BadBird]

I will bring my tube benders, tube cutters, double flaring tool, bench bleeder set, and whatever else crosses my pea brain. Hope you have several brake tube fittings. Larry

[redfalken]

Do I need any special kind of bit?

I've always found that step bits make very true, round holes in sheet metal where a standard bit can sometimes end up out of round. I'll can bring my set if you want but let me know what size so I can see if I have it. If the holes are small then a nice, sharp titanium bit will do just as well.

I'll bring all of my brake line tools, scrap line, fittings, and a few diagnostic tools. I might be there more like 10:00 but I'll be caffeinated and ready to go!!

[doghows]

Wow great progress. Is the big day this Saturday? I'll bet your itching to hear it purr again.
I've been swamped at the shop but have been tuning in and keeping track.
Can't wait to see the pics and posts from the fire up. Good luck with everything maybe if I get my work done I'll sneak out of town?!?
:D[yay]:3g:

[dhbfaster]

I do have the brake fittings. 10 of the small ones (I think 8 are required), and I do have the two for the double MC that Jeff gave me and confirmed they fit. I also have the two T's.

Wheel cylinders - I ended up buying 3 new brake hoses because the ones I bought 2 years ago...after scoring them with brake fluid left on them corroded badly. So...I decided to stick my head down there close enough to get a pic of the female fitting on one of the wheel cylinders...and I saw what is in the picture. When I installed them they were a bit corroded, but I think think it was this bad. No idea what it might be like inside, but my biggest concern is that it doesn't leak. This one in the pic is from the front. I have already had the back ones hooked up wo the rear brake line for a while. Do you guys think I am just being paranoid and these are ok? (Where's Jeff...club safety officer but also spend thrift....need your advice Jeff.)

Plug for the manifold - A While back I asked if anyone knew where I can find a plug for the manifold. I have looked everywhere for this thing and I can't seem to find one that fits. In the pic, the two on the top don't fit. What was in there (didn't come back with the block) looked like the one 2nd from top. The fitting on the bottom of the picture fits...but it's a 1/2-20 thread 5/16 tube fitting with a big hole in the middle...I can't seem to find this in a plug. Anyone have any ideas? I have probably spent $25 and several hours trying to find one of these that fits.

The mirror screws rivet inserts Phil gave me are the last pic attached. I emailed Phil and asked for a reminder of how to install these...he mentioned it a few posts back..but I'm not completely clear.

Anyone have a 0.1 A barrel fuse 1/4" by 1 1/4" laying around? I can order them, but have to buy 5 for about $15 with shipping. This is for my multimeter.

Also- door panel clips? I seem to be short about 8 of them. I know Orilieys has them...but it's another tripand probably $13 if anyone has extra they can save me.

Kenny- the screw fittings look like they fit in either a 15/16 hole or a 1/4" hole. Do you have a step bit that size?

Last but not least....any one have 4 of those black male bullet connectors? I need 4 for the tail lights.

Roger- I'm seeing the rustoleum automotive paint in gloss white or semi-gloss while but not satin white. Do you think they now call satin white semi-gloss white? http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-252468-Automotive-12-Ounce-Enamel/dp/B003CT4ADO

[Luva65wagon]

I've always found that step bits make very true, round holes in sheet metal where a standard bit can sometimes end up out of round.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. I've picked up these every time they go on sale (have about 5 sets, 2 are still unopened) and have a fresh set in my thread-sert kit. So you don't need to bring yours if you don't want to Kenny. I'll have them with me already.

[Luva65wagon]

I do have the brake fittings. 10 of the small ones (I think 8 are required), and I do have the two for the double MC that Jeff gave me and confirmed they fit. I also have the two T's.

I've got a kit of fittings and tee's. I'll bring them just to reduce the chance of having to waste time running around.


Wheel cylinders -Do you guys think I am just being paranoid and these are ok? (Where's Jeff...club safety officer but also spend thrift....need your advice Jeff.)

I think even Jeff would agree, you don't spend-thrift on brakes. They look a little yucky in there, but it may just be from a dusty garage. It might be 15 minutes per wheel to pull those and make sure what you have - which we can work on, our leave it for you to do if we don't get that far.


Plug for the manifold

Can you post a picture of the hole (again)? I'm not aware of any special thread types on a 60's Falcon. Most will be 1/8" or 1/4" pipe thread. Maybe your hole is one of these and someone forced the wrong fitting in and that's causing you the grief. I have a few plugs of varying sizes - and pipe thread taps. I'll bring all of that too. If the hole is vacuum, we got to plug it somehow. Maybe a cork. :NERVOUS:


The mirror screws rivet inserts Phil gave me are the last pic attached. I emailed Phil and asked for a reminder of how to install these...he mentioned it a few posts back..but I'm not completely clear.

Those look like 10-24, which is fine. I have to tool to fit that size too. You'll like that tool.


Anyone have a 0.1 A barrel fuse 1/4" by 1 1/4" laying around? I can order them, but have to buy 5 for about $15 with shipping. This is for my multimeter.

I have a lot of old multimeters I got from my Dad. Will see if any have a fuse that small. I may too as well.


Also- door panel clips?

I have many. Will bring them.


...a 15/16 hole or a 1/4" hole. Do you have a step bit that size?

As mentioned, I've got step drill bits in my Thread-sert kit. Bringing them.


...black male bullet connectors? I need 4 for the tail lights.

I have a huge assortment of bullet connectors. Will bring that kit too.


Do you think they now call satin white semi-gloss white? http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-252468-Automotive-12-Ounce-Enamel/dp/B003CT4ADO

I have a couple cans I think. Will bring one and donate it. I get the Satin stuff (like the 7777 Satin Black) from Home Depot. The cans call out the name SATIN in large letters, so this is a main product line and is different than what you are seeing.

My car will be packed it sounds like! [thumb]

[dhbfaster]

Roger, I'm really humbled by all the help. [BOW][BOW]
Attached is a pic of the hole I'm trying to plug. I'm sure with your help we will figure it out.
Added...also a pic of the plug that used to be there.

fyi, my multimeter actually works fine as-is...I rigged it with a piece of foil over the old fuse a long time ago when I planned to get a new fuse at the store and never found one :o...and actually I THINK I just don't really use the features much that power through the fuse. Anyway, now that I had to buy some new fuses for the falcon, I have a whole drawer full of extras...but don't have this one of course, but since these were usually bought five at a time-I figured someone might have extra- but don't mess up another multimeter for me. I also have a cheap digital multimeter if we need it.

So, I managed to figure out how to take a half day off from work tomorrow to work on the falcon...if I can get the front suspension done I'll be a really happy guy. If I get stuck...I'll work on something else...

Surprisingly...three calls into my muffler guy and no call back yet...:bicker:

Carb lube- is there an particular lube that I should use to lube the choke mechanism at the carb? It seems really rough to work, but it's not the cable. It's the same without the cable.

[Luva65wagon]

I've got a lot of heads here (trying to decide what to do with) and so I'll check those holes. I suspect 1/4" NPT, so will bring that tap and a plug and we'll clear out the hole if it is - vacuum in hand - and plug the hole. Won't run well with it like it is.

[thumb]

[Luva65wagon]

Use any good lube first just to see if it frees up. Probably some white lithium on any moving bits once it is free'd up.

[dhbfaster]

Roger, I took a caliper to the hole in the manifold and came up with about .47 inches for the inside diameter of the hole, inside of the threads.

[dhbfaster]

An update on yesterday...I knew I had a problem with the Passenger lower control arm slid too far back on the bushing- it was causing the control to interfere with the car and the suspension not to move much. I thought it was strange that I would not have centered the bushing- but took the arm it out to straighten it and realized it has slid because the control arm is bent.
:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:(I think it will only let me do 8 of these!)
This arm was "dinged" from the accident, but it appears I made it worse when I replaced the bushing. Pic attached (of me holding it up in the car today) - the bushing should essentially be parallel to the bar on the control arm so you can see how bent it is. I took it to a small body shop and also to another shop that looks like they have a lot of classic car experience to see if they might be able to straighten it (or even straighten it and weld a brace in the middle)......neither one would touch it. Darn- I lost half a vacation day for this.
If you remember a ways back in the thread...I bought replacements for these control arms early on- but it turns out (even though it incorrectly says they should fit a 61) they don't fit. The ball joint stem is too big for the female side in the 61 spindle. So...I thought I would throw it out to think about. I do have a hydraulic press I can get out of storage, but I'm not confident I can get it back. The only lower control arm I found on ebay is a supposedly NOS and they want almost $200. (and I would probably still want to replace the bushing without messing it up!) I'm wondering if there is any way to change the post on the ball joint for the previous ones I bought before?? I suppose not...

Meanwhile...Roger, pics of the tags from the engine attached for your reading pleasure...I think you know what all this stuff actually means.
I'm feeling so far over my head today...

The weather doesn't look horrible tomorrow...Kenny- look forward to you seeing you at 10. I did find that reduction of the file to 22% seems to match the font size on the hubcaps...Larry and Roger what time do you plan on arriving? and did all of you get my Pm with the address ok?

[BadBird]

Can't tell much from the picture of the control arm. Not sure why no one would tackle straightening it. Guess we will see what can be done tomorrow. The tags you have for the long block pretty much match the directions I dad. I didn't have anything about the cooler though.
Also, did get your PM and plan to be there around 9. See you all there. Larry

[Luva65wagon]

Out in the garage now collecting bits and pieces for tomorrow. Will be there near 9 but not later than 10.

Looks like the arm is twisted, not bent, from the picture. But agree with Larry we'll have to take a look see.

Scrolling through the thread to figure all to bring, but I didn't have 10-24 threadsert tool. Have 10-32 and some stainless screws, which I'm bringing.

See you in the AM.

[dhbfaster]

Yes, the control arm is twisted. Should I go get the hydraulic press out of storage?
I agree we should be able to get it back to where it needs to be-I'm just not sure how. Worst case if it seems flimsy weld some small angle iron pieces in there. Also , the bushing may be too loose now. It took a lot to get the old one out. Anyway, I'll see what you think in the morning. Let me know if I should bring the hydraulic press if you get this in time. If I don't hear from you I'll probably just go get it.

Screws for mirrors...if those screws don't fit, Phil send me the instructions by email for how to squash these without the tool.

Larry...on the oil cooler...unless I'm off my rocker there is no oil cooler...I just uploaded that generic tag along with the rest.

Thanks and look forward to seeing you three!!:D

[Luva65wagon]

Not sure what press you have, but we will give it a good attempt witty whatever we have.

[PhilC]

In case you didn't get it by email...


To compress the insert without the tool, you need a nut matching the thread pitch of the screw in the picture and a thick spacer. Once you have the holes drilled, thread the nut onto the screw or another bolt with the same thread pitch (what I used to do), then the spacer (a nut one size up from the screw thread pitch should work well) and thread the assembly into the insert until you see at least 2 or 3 threads on the bottom. Now slide the spacer down until it contacts the top of the insert, and then run the nut down by hand until it contacts the spacer.

This is the tricky part, you have to hold the insert firmly against the door surface while using a wrench to tighten the nut against the spacer. You'll feel the insert "give" as it begins to collapse, continue tightening the nut until you feel resistance as the insert begins to grip the back side of the panel. You want to be sure the insert is fully seated, but don't overtighten.

It would probably be best to place a piece of 1.5" masking tape over the hole before placing the insert in the hole. This will protect the paint around the insert while you set it. Once the insert is set, peel the tape off and don't worry about any that is caught under the lip of the insert - won't hurt a thing to have a paper tape "washer".

I wouldn't attempt to save that control arm, it will be very hard to get the twist out, if at all. Due to their critical importance in vehicle suspension, control arms are never repaired if damaged, always replaced. That's why the two shops wouldn't touch it (and I agree with why).

Wish I'd known, I have some extra control arms and may well have an early one or two that would fit a 60/61. :(

Hope the rest of your tech day goes well! [thumb]

[SmithKid]

Is it alive?

[Luva65wagon]

When I left it wasn't. I came down with a nasty bug last night and I was near useless. I left about 1pm (took 3 hours to get home :doh: ) as Larry was running brake lines and Kenny was doing hubcaps lettering.

Sadly, what's worse, because we had no pump drive tool when we dropped the motor in we didn't catch the fact that the oil pump would not spin. So Don had to pull the pan. Turns out the center bolt, which is the pickup tube bolt, was maybe .030 too long. Ironically the right bolt was in the bag of oil pump leftovers. Swapped it out and pump was spinning freely again. Then I left. Never even could eat a donut. :(

So between me being white as a ghost and that, it was a two steps back day. Not sure how far they got on the other things.

[dhbfaster]

Every day working on the falcon, especially with help from family and the club is a good day. ;:)
The biggest bummer is that Roger wasn't feeling well. Hope you are feeling better today Roger.:(

A few things we (and I use that word loosely) DID get done:
Larry bent the control arm back and it's back on the car.

Larry was the master brake line bender and got the long brake line done and along with a tiny bit of help from me, Jason and Roger we got that installed and all the way to the dual master. The small lines on the dual master are done. Just the two front pieces are left...I think Larry just wanted to make sure I did part of it myself (which is great.)

Kenny painted FORD on three hubcaps...left one for me which I did last night. They came out pretty good...just a little touch up needed! (Especially not the one I did.) Attached a pic. Man you really need a steady hand for this kind of stuff.

Roger also brought a tap and cleaned out the hole in the manifold that I couldn't find a plug to fit and he put a nice brass plug in there...I had been working on that forever and Roger was done in 15 minutes.

Jason took off the oil pan with a little help from me, and we are both sore from wrenching to get the belly bar off using our desk job muscles...(maybe Jason would say speak for yourself.)

Roger, questions on the oil pump. You covered this but just to be sure:
I took the shaft out and then put it back in....and after a long day I was 2nd guessing myself "ut oh...did I put that back in the right direction?"
I think it's right, but was it short side out? long in? or the other way around? (I'm not seeing confirmation or how to confirm in the manual or online.)
Either way, when pushed all the way in, it sticks out 1 inch. IMG_1893 shows it with the washer (circled in red) oriented the way I think it should go.
Also, to prime it...IMG_1895 has a red circle around the hole I should put oil into correct?

Also, I already have the new pan gasket. Hopefully I can get this thing back together in the next couple days.

[Luva65wagon]

Don, it was a long day and night, but no longer feverish. Sorry I wasn't 100%.

The short end is out. The purpose being is to have that push washer close to the engine block so when you (ever) pull the distributor you don't pull the shaft out with it.

Yes, if you wanna put oil into the pump, it will be in that hole.

And on that note... back into my hole.

[ew1usnr]

Kenny painted FORD on three hubcaps...left one for me which I did last night. They came out pretty good.

Wow! Those hubcaps look really nice.

[redfalken]

Wish I could have got more done. I forgot how time consuming it was to cut out all of those letters! But any progress is progress!!

Let us know when you plan the engine break in. Would love to be around for that. It was nice to finally see all the work you've done up close. It really shows that you're paying attention to the details.

And thanks to Larry for helping out and Roger for even showing up for a few hours!! Hope you are on the mend!

[dhbfaster]

Larry- I started trying to bend the small brake line tonight...now I know why your hands were cramping up! You made the flaring look easy too. My first one didn't come out too well. :mad:

How's the recovery Roger? Hope you're feeling better.

[dhbfaster]

On a long wait at a doc appointment just for a checkup...looking at the old manuals for the Motorola am radios on eBay. Anyone ever bought one of these? Does it have a lot more than the general 60-63 car manual? They are $14.95. Was thinking about buying it for reading material for my China trip.

Feeling Better Roger? Hopefully I can get stuff back on tonight if I can ever get out of the doc office.

By the way, the muffler guy finally called and he's sending out another one...hopefully it fits.

[redfalken]

Is the radio not working? I've replaced capacitors before and that sometimes brings them back to life. I have some wiring diagrams and spec sheets on a few of the Bendix models.

Sorry if I missed something back a few pages. This thread's getting looooong!

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

I left all of my bending tools in the canvas bag, if you hadn't noticed them there. Most of these small tube bends I use my hand, sockets, any means necessary. Be patient and just make sure you put on the nuts - pointing in the right direction, before you flare. Typically it's better to have the lines a little long than too short, so I usually take my little pocket tape measure and work it into the rough shape and area it needs to be - then add a couple inches to the length. Put on the needed nuts, flare, then bend into shape. It's easier to flare a straight tune than a bent tube.

I'll play by ear about the start-up. If more want to attend this (Kenny/Gene), then we may hold another tech day where we're all 100% and get it started and brakes bled and proven correctly. Two things you don't want to guess through or rush.

And for what it is worth I am back to work today... barely. I'm here anyway. Just a bit foggy and weak having eaten nothing but broth and crackers for 3 days. I'm hoping my first coffee since Friday may help with that. :cool:

[dhbfaster]

Glad you're starting to to feel human again Roger!

I bolted the primed pump back on last night, and cleaned up the bottom of the block for the gasket. Cleaning the oil pan without taking off the the paint along with it seems to be more of a challenge. I'll get there but let me know if you have any tips.

[Luva65wagon]

I don't know if I'd go that far Don... :rolleyes:

Paint between the pan isn't too big a deal. If you are trying to wipe it off with chemicals, then you just need to be careful. Touch up the paint as needed. Hopefully you'll be able to retain the end seals, which should seal nicely again with a slight coat of sealer (if still adhered to the block rather than the pan) I honestly should have looked at it before I left. Should have done a lot of things.

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

If you have any concerns about reinstalling the pan gasket, and pan, you can leave that for the start-up day. It's not hard to do, but it's not hard to get one of the front or rear seals to slip out of place while you are lying on your back - and then you have a leak (followed by a rinse and repeat later on down the road). So don't feel too much pressure on that if you have other things you want to focus on.

[BadBird]

I'm glad we got a few things done, but still feel bad that we couldn't get more.

It wasn't just my hands that were cramping up. By the time I got home I could barely move. I started taking a diuretic a few days earlier to help lower my blood pressure and in locked up all my muscles. By the next morning I couldn't move. Pulled a back muscle, my right foot arch pulled, a chest muscle and my hands were like claws. Anyway, I hope we get another chance to help you get this further along.

It was also bad that Roger was so sick, but bless his heart for even showing up.

The hubcaps look great. Let us know when, and I will try to be there. Larry

[dhbfaster]

Man we sound like a bunch of old sick people!
That sound awful Larry. Holy cow.

The gasket RTV wasn't coming off the pan very easily so I went to Orilieys yesterday and asked them if they had a remover that would remove the sealer but not be too hard on the part. The girl gave me some stuff and swore it was what I needed. That stuff was horrible. It didn't remove any sealer, and where it dripped down the sides it started to remove the powder coat. So, I cleaned it up right away and it seems like I saved it from major damage. Tonight I spend my hour (until my hands cramped up) just scrubbing off the RTV with a 3m red pad and mild cleaner and got most of it off except deep in the grooves where it doesn't matter anyway. (at least I don't THINK it matters.)

The rubber gaskets at the ends are still on the block side, not on the pan side- but they are oily. I'm afraid if I clean them it may not be good- so I'm thinking it's best to replace them.

If you don't mind if I wait until you can come back to put the pan on I will wait, because as much fun as I am having...I do NOT want to put this pan on a third time! :WHATTHE:

What do your schedules look like? This weekend is fine for me, and it would be great to know this motor runs...BUT Jason can't be there this weekend either. The next few weekends I'm off to China and then vacation on a side trip there with my wife and then next falcon weekend could be April 9th. Jason can make it and if that works better for you guys it's fine by me and maybe Gene can make it too. I can work on some other stuff this weekend...like the muffler if it ever comes in, the clips, the doors...or as far as that goes, we have enough to do a little time on both weekends if anyone wants to.

[redfalken]

I guess I got off easy. I was just a little tired when I got home! Glad everyone is feeling better.

I can't make it this weekend but can come over in April. I'll work on whatever still needs to be done. I always just scrape the silicone off with a razor and it comes off clean but that's usually on pans that have been running for a few years. Yours was fresh so it was probably stuck pretty tight.

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

I'm not really concerned whether it will run or not - and neither should you be. You used a reputable builder and these are some of the most basic engines, it would be odd to have problems...

oh wait, we had problems...

OK, aside from my lack the day we put the pan on of not having a tool to spin the pump that day, I think that will be the only thing we left with any doubt that day.

I'm thinking the April date is best. I'm better, but I'm not 100% by any means. It comes and goes. Last night I thought I was succumbing again and today is like... uhh...

So do the things you can. Leave the pan off. I'll check the pump again with it off one-last-time and then we'll put the pan on. We only have to stab the distributor after finding top dead center, run a jumper to the coil to start it, add some gas... and VROOOOOM! Or maybe that's VROOM.

[dhbfaster]

Sounds like a plan Roger...we'll save the pan install and startup for April 9th.
I hope you can get some rest this weekend. Gene- I hope you can make it on the 9th. Looks like Roger, Kenny, Larry will be there...and open to other club members that want to learn about startup.

Larry, if you want to get out for a few hours and help me knock out the last two brake lines or doors this Saturday morning...I'd love to have you ;) but no rush.

[dhbfaster]

Got the tail light connectors fixed and hooked up tonight and started to checkout the electrical system connections. Headlights, tail lights, dash lights, and parking lights work fine (I can't test the brake lights or turn signals yet) but I didn't see how to get the dome light on. I'll check the bulb tonight. When is the dome light supposed to come on? Should it come on when the key is put on ACC? Is there supposed to be a door switch? It looks like there is a hole for a door switch, but no switch there. I didn't see a wire there for a switch and I'll have to take off the kick panel to try and find it if that's the case.
I finished the restoration of the clips for the harness in the engine compartment. Should be able to get those on this weekend.

[SmithKid]

Don, I don't have my dome light installed/working yet, but I believe it should come on by rotating the headlight switch fully CCW (past a detent).The holes are for switches. My car had them.

[dhbfaster]

Thanks Gene, that's what I was expecting actually- but I didn't seem to ever get to a detent. I'll try that again tonight.

[Luva65wagon]

Gene beat me to it, but yep, that's how you do it without door switches. Those are pretty easy to add, by the way. Just need to pop in the switches. In fact I think I may have the harness. But I've said that sort of thing before to only discover I already gave it away. If I ever run across it, it may be something you can consider.

You asked elsewhere about rust in the cylinders if you don't get it started soon. Inside a garage I wouldn't be too concerned in the span of a few months, but if years went by it is never a bad idea to fog the cylinders and crank the motor over a few times - even by hand. I'd probably be less concerned with a new motor over one that was previously running. A new motor, if assembled correctly with a boat-load of assembly lube, which is ultra clingy stuff, is more apt to resist rusting than a previously running motor where gas has pretty much washed away most of the oils off the walls of the cylinders.

[dhbfaster]

Roger, so is it worth spraying a can in and rotating it once or twice a few times before I go to China? or do you think it is better to just leave the original stuff since we're only a few weeks away anyway?

[Luva65wagon]

You can't go wrong doing it, but your garage is very dry, so would not worry about it. April 9th we should be starting it. Knock on wood, or my head.

[dhbfaster]

"Very dry"....:ROTFLMAO: As someone that grew up in the desert that's a pretty funny thing to hear, but it's all relative. [BOW]

[Luva65wagon]

It was hard to say too, relatively speaking. :rolleyes:

[dhbfaster]

Ok, need a little muffler advice.
The place I bought my muffler from online finally sent me one that seems to fit.
Do I need to put any kind of sealer in-between the pipes before I put the clamps on?

[Jeff W]

No sealer.

[dhbfaster]

Thanks Jeff!

[dhbfaster]

Whew....back from two weeks of work trips and a 14 hour flight. Can't wait to get back to the falcon tomorrow (if I can stay awake.):banana:

We still on for this Saturday for startup Roger?
All your stuff is right where you left it.

Kenny and anyone else able to join us?

I hope this week to get the muffler on, and at least have the brake lines bent...(probably leaving the flaring for Saturday.)

[Luva65wagon]

We still on for this Saturday for startup Roger?
All your stuff is right where you left it.

That's the plan as of today, Don. Probably leave home about 8 and be there between 9 and 9:30. Hopefully no other illnesses or engine issues keep that engine from roaring to life.

[AGREE]

[dhbfaster]

Sounds good Roger...anyone else able to join us?

[Jeff W]

I will send good thoughts and a warm breeze from Hawaii;:)

Spring break! Yeah!

[Luva65wagon]

It's supposed to be 80 degrees on Thursday. That's too hot for April if you ask me.

I like that it will be a little overcast, maybe even a slight sprinkle, on Saturday. My allergies have been so brutal the past 5 days and as of today I have lost my voice - the meds to clear my sinus's have killed my throat. Makes it tough to do phone support at work.

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

Hmm... Not sure where the club will be on Saturday - seems they've all decided to take vacation. No vacation for me so I'll be there and will do my bestest to move things forward. Thankfully this allergy thing is starting to fade. Has been a rough few days up until just yesterday when I started feeling a bit more normal (term used loosely). It wouldn't have kept me away, but I'm tired of people feeling sorry for me.

:o

If anyone else is out there and wants to work on a very sweet Falcon, please ring-in. I'm sure Don would love to participate in all our future fun, with a car, sooner rather than later. Every hand helps towards this goal.

Thanks-

[doghows]

where is this party at? I might be able to sneak away, and I think I owe Don a bit for helping me put my delivery together.

[Luva65wagon]

Don lives in Federal Way. He can ring-in with address PM. I'm sure he'd be happy to have you there helping.

[redfalken]

Sorry, just saw this post! I should be able to come down this Saturday. I may not be there until 10:00 and need to take off about 4 or 4:30 latest. Should be able to knock a few things off the to-do list though!

[dhbfaster]

Roger and Kenny - Awesome! Donuts will be there.:rocker:

If anyone else wants to join us let us PM me. To those of you un-names on vacations and galavanting around other parts of the country...I know you will be there in spirit and we'll get out an update so you can check in.

I did get the muffler "on" last night. It seems to be a slightly crooked though...haven't completely figured that out yet...hope I can solve it with the bracket or something else.

Front tie bar business...2nd set doesn't fit! I'll show you in the morning Roger.

Roger and Kenny look forward to seeing you in the AM [BOW][BOW][BOW]

[ew1usnr]

To those of you un-names on vacations and galavanting around other parts of the country...I know you will be there in spirit and we'll get out an update so you can check in.

Hello, Don.

I like your little 144 ThriftPower Six and am looking forward to hearing that you guys have brought it back to life,

Dennis in Tampa.

[ew1usnr]

Sorry about posting this twice. Once the second one was posted I could not figure out a way to delete it.


To those of you un-names on vacations and galavanting around other parts of the country...I know you will be there in spirit and we'll get out an update so you can check in.

Hello, Don.

I like your little 144 ThriftPower Six and am looking forward to hearing that you guys have brought it back to life.

After that I will look forward to seeing photos of you and your family taking it on trips.

Dennis in Tampa.

[dhbfaster]

Granddad's falcon came to life today!
Hopefully this link to the video works:

https://youtu.be/gvnpMx4lqD8

Still some work to do on the carb. Still need to finish the front suspension and doors, and mirrors...and a list of other minor things, but it's getting close.
Kenny got a lot done on the doors today.
Huge thanks to Kenny and Roger today as well as everyone who has helped all along the way and those there in spirit today.:BEER:[yay][BOW][BOW][BOW]

[BadBird]

It's Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Frankenstein would be proud! Wish I could have been there. Carol and I should be back in town in late May. Hope to see the car at shows after that. Larry

[Jeff W]

Congratulations! Nice work everyone. It sure sounds smooth and looks great.

Good idea to have Kenny laying on the ground watching for oil gushers. That's the excuse he uses at work too... I tell him it must be hard to see with his eyes closed and all that snoring disturbing him.

[dhbfaster]

Thanks everyone.

Roger- Debbie sent me a note about the carb and is wondering if it's possible it could be the spark arrester (aka power valve??). A pic attached...the left one in the pic is what came off, the right was new??
Also...here are the pictures for the carb during before, during and after Debbie rebuilt it. https://www.flickr.com/photos/40834339@N07/sets/72157666852771562/

Worst case I do see one NOS carb on eBay (pricey...and wouldn't it need new gaskets, etc. (rebuild kit anyway??) Also, some rebuilt ones with a guarantee on eBay and at Macs. (also pricey.) I didn't see any new (yet) ones like I mentioned earlier.

Kenny...your jacket is in my garage...:WHATTHE: too bad, you might have to come back to get it. Maybe you can take care of the other front door while you are here...:ROTFLMAO: Just kidding. I'll get that to you somehow if you don't come back.

[SmithKid]

Don and Crew, Congratulations! Sorry I couldn't be there to witness.
The video worked great, Don.

[redfalken]

I'll grab the jacket next time we see each other. I could probably get the other door done in about 20 minutes after doing the first one. Took a lot of time just to figure out what went where and in what order.

Good luck on the carb. It sounded great and once you get that figured out it should be smooth sailing!

[dhbfaster]

Sound good Kenny! I'll save it for you.:rocker:[BOW]
Roger- I am cleaning up (derust and paint) the old big round "washers" and "tubes" from the tie rod bushing kit so we can use those with the bushings after you machine them. I will also try to get the nut on the tie rod loose one more time. :bicker:

[ew1usnr]

Roger- I am cleaning up (derust and paint) the old big round "washers" and "tubes" from the tie rod bushing kit so we can use those with the bushings after you machine them.

5616

Roger is machining the rubber bushings?

I smeared mine inside and out with silicone grease prior to installation.

[dhbfaster]

Interesting. That set looks like the 2nd set I bought (which doesn't fit.) However, neither set came with instructions. (Mine is different than both sets.) Now I can see how the orientation (direction) of the large washers is designed to be. Can you post another picture of those instructions showing the entire instruction? The torque is also interesting.
Roger is meticulous...I generally am too...but even I would have used the hack saw on this and never thought of machining them. Machining them will be much better though. Thanks Dennis.

[Luva65wagon]

Thanks Don. I'll have a look at this all while I have it open too. Power valve "looks" have changed, so I'm not sure that will reflect on the function. If they are in the bag, I'll look close at it all.

It did seem to run gooder in the beginning and only as it ran longer did it start running less than gooder. So if I don't see anything in the carb we'll have to brainstorm a bit.

D- One thing I'm wondering is the valve adjustment. These are solid rockers I think, so maybe as the valves seated themselves and the cam broke in we had something(s) go too tight. May have to pop the valve-cover and check them anyway. They would have only had a cold adjustment. Look at it from your side too.

As I explained to Don I'm not sure I've ever seen a set of these bushings being all the same. Every brand made them "better" than the next. These bushings I've been carving/machining on are very hard solid rubber. Not like any I've ever seen on a strut-rod. I've also seen instructions with washers cupped out on both sides.

So, as I searched for the word on Saturday that would not come (it was "defy") I defy anyone to find instructions for setting up strut rods with factory parts. I've looked. Logic tells me how I think they should be setup, but maybe they are further adjusted at the alignment shop.

I think we only need to shorten one bushing - the front side. As it stands the back bushing, washer, installed bring the the lower control arm forward to the right spot (as I see they should be). But the same thickness on the front keep me from installing the second washer and then the nut. If the front bushing was trimmed (machined) I could get it on.

D- I don't think those sleeves will fit in these bushing. Clean them if you would like, but not sure we can use them.

D- I'm not sure which NUT you are referring to. If the Strut-rod and not tie-rod, don't bother. I think when I'm done, we'll be fine.

But yeah, nothing new fit correctly as-is. Frame holes were too small, strut rod diameter too small. Nuts too big or too small. Washers too big to clear. This set I'm using were too thick only, but ID was fine, though the new nut they supplied would not thread on. Original bushings seemed they would, if reinstalled, pull the lower control arm forward almost 10 degrees, which I would think would be a heavy bind on the control arm bushing. So I'm not trimming these that much.

OK I've rambled enough... :o

[dhbfaster]

Roger, not sure why, but that link of the carb pictures I posted only seems to show two pictures now. I thought I tested it, but here's another try:
https://www.flickr.com/x/t/0092009/gp/40834339@N07/W27Spt/
It should show 73 photos. In case the link doesn't work, I attached the pic of the back of the spark arrester. The back of the spark arresters (old vs new) does look different from each other. No idea whether or not that's the problem. Just something Debbie noticed was really different looking.
Ok...I won't mess with the strut rod nut.
Start talking valves and such...getting way over my head.:WHATTHE: Should I pickup a new valve cover gasket to have on hand?

[Luva65wagon]

Thanks Don. They may still be doing the same thing. They are vacuum bypass valves and the ends you see are not pressing against anything. They are just supposed to open and close (maybe more or less) with engine vacuum. This varies the spark advance. Your motor has no centrifugal advance in the distributor, so this valve varies you vacuum advance. Ford better idea!

But I'll look closer at this when I get it all apart. But right now I would not be too concerned with the design difference of these two.

Who put the valve cover on? I usually only seal the gasket to the cover so you can pull it, but if it is glued on both sides, then it will probably be a bear to remove and a new gasket will be needed.

We really should check valve clearance, but maybe call the engine builder and see what they say regarding preset and post-run valve adjustments. Don't want to stray from anything they set in a warranty.

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

Spent a couple hours looking the carburetor over and first of all, the thing is really clean. That is for sure. That said, there were a couple things I found.

The first being the washer that seals the float/seat body to the carb body. It was aluminum and it didn't offer any resistance to loosening it. My guess is it didn't compress much and the first hot/cold cycle left it looser. Could have allowed fuel to flow into the bowl before the needle and seat. Hard to say. I changed it to a copper washer and tightened it good and tight.

The second was the power valve/accelerator pump plate. It was pretty warped and the gasket behind it was very fuel soaked. I used my granite plate and sandpaper and took care of that. Here's the before and after, but I should have blackened the thing for more contrast. You can see the bottom two corners and furthest corner have been sanded at. Took a lot of sanding to make it flat again.

5628 5629

I will look into the power valve tomorrow.

So there were some things. Whether any of them make a difference is to be seen, but this is one of the better little Holley's I seen, so it should be OK.

Also came upon my Pertronix kit for a 6'r and it needs a home. May be yours if you want it. I will not use it. Will make you a smokin' deal on it.

More as I find it to offer.

[dhbfaster]

Wow, :WHATTHE:, super cool that you found a couple things on the carb right away. Both those seem plausible to me (but of course...I don't know much!)

ON the valve cover gasket- you know how I am- I wanted to do it more gooder so I used the goop. I'll buy another gasket one just in case. There's a Napa a block from work.

Vacuum advance stuff...I'm still pretty fuzzy on how all that stuff works.

Pertronic ignition- That's just the module that replaces the points inside the distributor right? if you say it's the way to go, then let's do it. The points setup seems a bit flimsy. [BOW][BOW][BOW][BOW][BOW]

[PhilC]

It's alive! :BEER:

Nice to see and hear your engine run Don, must be really happy to reach that milestone.

Read of the strut rod bushing issue, and best I can recall, the 60 and early 61s cars used smaller strut rods than later models. Memory is a bit foggy on this, but seem to remember the early strut rods had issues and Ford beefed them up later in the production run.

What I do know is, the early models used different bushings. I ran into this several years ago (easily 15+) and remember going back and forth with the supplier to finally get the correct bushings.

On the off chance you don't have it, I've posted the pages from the shop manual re: strut rod and bushing replacement and diagram of strut rod arrangement (not the best copy). Disregard if you already have that info.

Keep up the good progress! [thumb]

Phil

[Luva65wagon]

Phil,

These struts are smaller than those on my 63 or my 65. The bushings I have (to rework) are close the correct ID for the strut (under compression they should collapse and remove any slop), but the bushing has a step in it intended to go into the front frame hole to center it. It was almost 1/4" too large to fit in the hole. There was also a bushing of sorts in the hole I removed. Helped little. So these I was able to carve these to fit.

That wasn't so much a problem. The problem is that the depth of these bushings is pretty fixed (they are very stiff) and if you install a washer, a bushing, shove it in the hole, a bushing... now you have barely the space for a washer much less a nut. The back nut could be backed up (Don tried, but could not get them to budge), but as it is right now, with one bushing left AS-IS and a washer behind it - the lower control arm is held with little binding of its bushing - i.e., not being pulled forward against the lower control arm bushing. So if I can thin-out the front bushing to get a washer and nut on the thing, we may be golden. That's the plan so far.

I don't like how stiff these bushing are though. I expect them to be more rubber than plastic-like. These are more plastic-like. Like a POLY bushing, but I don't think they are Poly. I see these bushings splitting in my minds-eye, but we'll have to watch and see.

[Luva65wagon]

Vacuum advance stuff...I'm still pretty fuzzy on how all that stuff works.

I've labored a few time to explain this on the forum to a couple folk. It's still out there burning holes in "the cloud" I'm sure. But as basic as I can get...

Your car, unlike most cars, has only vacuum advance. Most cars have mechanical and vacuum advance. Ford's better idea was the Spark-O-Matic system, or some such name as that. :WHATTHE: This is only a vacuum advance and uses a special carburetor to feed the correct vacuum to the distributor to advance your timing.

You have to advance timing (cause the spark to occur earlier) as your engine RPM increases. The fuel still need "time" to burn, so you usually need to advance timing to give it this chance. It also needs to vary based upon load. This is usually where a combination of centrifugal (mechanical) advance and vacuum advance work in tandem. Each offer varying characteristics to allow for overlapping conditions. But you have only one type, which has to work well in all conditions. It sort of did.

Anyway, the special carburetor is the key to this working and the spark control, which is an odd term relating to a carburetor, has this special vacuum feed to handle spark advance via only vacuum. If you use a carburetor with this circuit missing (ask me how I know about that - :doh:) or if the wrong spark advance valve is used, the car will be gutless at best and will detonate itself to pieces at worst.

I have no way of knowing if your new one is right, but I know the old one doesn't have a hole in its diaphragm. But I don't know if it was right either. I'll probably leave the new one.


Pertronix ignition - That's just the module that replaces the points inside the distributor right? if you say it's the way to go, then let's do it. The points setup seems a bit flimsy.

These are consistent if anything. No adjustment, wear, rare failure, steady output signal. Points worked for years, obviously, but required dealing with them (adjustment or replacement) often. Points are now almost all Chinese made (no offense to anyone, or you Don), but the quality has gone way down on any I buy today. There may still be a gooder brand to spec out, but I just find them easier to replace with a Pertronix than bothering with points - at least on my own stuff. Pertronix, I'm sure, loves to hear that. The set I have were on my wagon, but I upgraded to DuraSpark II ignition on it to gain mechanical advance and to install the Weber carburetor.

[dhbfaster]

Man...Your really causing the gray stuff to stretch. :o
Ok, I did a little reading at lunch...have a few dumb questions and then I'm going to study all this more tonight when I have a chance (unless it gets in the way getting the muffler on right.) My questions/comments below under your comments in quotes and bold...

"Your car, unlike most cars, has only vacuum advance."
WOW. What I'm confused about is I thought that inside my distributor I saw weights and springs. That is not the mechanical advance? Did I see only springs? (I wish I was home to check to confirm that's not my imagination or something I saw on youtube.)


" Most cars have mechanical and vacuum advance. Ford's better idea was the Spark-O-Matic system, or some such name as that. :WHATTHE: This is only a vacuum advance and uses a special carburetor to feed the correct vacuum to the distributor to advance your timing.

You have to advance timing (cause the spark to occur earlier) as your engine RPM increases. The fuel still need "time" to burn, so you usually need to advance timing to give it this chance. It also needs to vary based upon load. This is usually where a combination of centrifugal (mechanical) advance and vacuum advance work in tandem. Each offer varying characteristics to allow for overlapping conditions. But you have only one type, which has to work well in all conditions. It sort of did.

Anyway, the special carburetor is the key to this working and the spark control, which is an odd term relating to a carburetor, has this special vacuum feed to handle spark advance via only vacuum. If you use a carburetor with this circuit missing (ask me how I know about that - :doh:) or if the wrong spark advance valve is used, the car will be gutless at best and will detonate itself to pieces at worst.

I have no way of knowing if your new one is right, but I know the old one doesn't have a hole in its diaphragm. But I don't know if it was right either. I'll probably leave the new one."
Ok, I think I understand everything down to this last paragraph. But just to confirm, you are talking about the carb and the diaphragm in the carb?

Ok, on the Pertronix, no offense on the China thing...you know I could easily start a side conversation on that..., anyway, the Pertronix simply replaces the points and changes that function to solid state correct? Seems kind of no-brainer.

So it does seem like vacuum is very critical then. Do we need to measure it more precisely? When I had my finger on that tube- it didn't seem like there was a whole lot of vacuum there.

What about the coil? Could a weak coil cause the problem we were having? Any way to test it? Ok, I'll save the rest of my ignition questions for later... Added this: http://classicmechanic.blogspot.com/2011/05/testing-and-ignition-coil.html

Phil...thanks for the info. Glad you caught the video too.
Back to work for me...

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

1) You'd have a very rare 6 cylinder distributor if it had weights and springs. There may be (memory is fuzzy here) a spring (only one) to pull the point plate back when vacuum isn't present, but no weights for sure. This spring may actually be in the vacuum advance too, since I can't picture its presence in my memory.

2) Yes, the external "power valve looking thing" is the Spark-o-Magic vacuum controller. It is spring-loaded to open only when the vacuum is strong enough to operate it. If the spring is too strong or too weak will greatly effect the advance curve.

3) Yes, Pertronix is a no-brainer... especially when being offer to you at a smokin' deal. [yay]

4) Vacuum at that port should have been full. I'll hook my vacuum gauge up to it next time and actually measure it. This might be helpful.

5) Coils are easy to measure with an ohm meter. Plenty of on-line tutorials on that. I suggest the Pertronix site since they also have a requirement for the Pertronix 1 kit, which is what you'll be putting in. The spec should not be too far off even for a the original coil, which is what I used too (yellow-top coil). I have a couple of these laying around too, if you find yours to be questionable.

[Luva65wagon]

Oh - we'll need full 12 volts to the Pertronix - tapped from the terminal of your ignition switch (key-on 12 volt source) feeding the pink wire. There is a bullet connector about 3" from your switch we'll need to tap into. You might add that to your list of things to-do. We'll leave the regular resistor wire fed voltage to the coil, since it (your coil) is not designed to see 12+ volts all the time like the Pertronix is.

[dhbfaster]

[BOW][BOW][BOW]Whew...(Pertronix) sounds like that's what I call "Continuous improvement" Roger. I gotta try not to get distracted and get this thing fully running normally stock first, suspension done, steering working, brakes working, muffler in place, doors done, door panels on, new tires on, hubcaps done, antenna on, new mirrors on and at some point...drive it.;) (It all seems so close...but all these little things!!!:doh: BUT, shoot I'll buy Pertronix from you if for nothing else to help pay for all your gas coming over to help me!!! (In fact we should put one of those red cans at my place in your tank and one in Kenny's anyway...) At this rate Pertronix it seems like an end of summer project if I'm lucky...

Attached is a pic of the carb and the springs I was talking about. What do these springs do?

Also, for what's it's worth I talked to both Debbie & her husband (a career 35 year mechanic) and my father in law (who knows quite a bit about ignitions and fuel systems (& has a few few patents) today. Neither of them know falcons like you know falcons by any means, but they both do have quite a bit of time around engines old and new. Interestingly they both came out with the same result after our conversation- First they reminded me how new and precisely tight the engine is- saying it might require a fast idle for a while. They think there's a good chance you've nailed it with what you've found on the carb. If that doesn't do it, they think it almost has to be a vacuum leak somewhere. Neither thinks the valve adjustments would be off- especially since it sounded so good, but can't rule it out. Neither (both from El Paso) think vapor lock is likely...but again can't rule it out. Both think it's time to put the carb back on and give it another shot.
One thing I know from my troubleshooting experience at work, as much as possible we should try one thing at at time. I'll add heater hose couplers to my list of stuff to pick up from Napa. As always

[ew1usnr]

"They reminded me how new and precisely tight the engine is- saying it might require a fast idle for a while"

Hello, Don.

I had my engine was rebuilt and was disappointed when I first drove it home. The thing drove like a tractor. The rebuilt engine was so tight that it took about 1000 miles before it began to loosen up. After that it just ran better and better as I put more miles on the car.

Be patient when you first start driving your car. Put 3000 miles on it before forming an opinion on its performance.

Driving the car will be as much a part of restoring it as all the other work you are doing.

Don't just take it on one or two test runs and then park it in the garage. Get out and drive that little car! :shift:

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

Don't fret over the Pertronix addition too much. It really is a 10 minute add and will make even this motor break-in period a more predictable event. I'll make the plug-in wire and bring with. Whether we do it that day or not, it will be a plug-and-play install whenever you are comfortable adding it.

Thanks for the gas offer. Not needed. I got a cool flag coming soon. [yay]

This may be a long post, so forgive me in advance... I'd like to explain some things - not to mention the way my brain works; if you'll oblige me the opportunity.

On Saturday I instantly ran through all the possible reasons for the problem - and unfortunately (for you, as it has been for others) I have a tendency to spew all that information out; maybe in person, maybe here. I know, for a fact, I've more than once freaked people out and scared them because I think they think I may think it is all of these things that are happening. I think.

Anecdotally, the Pertronix allowed me to drive my hobbled wagon from southern Oregon all the way to Seattle a few years ago. I'd driven to the FCA Regional in Woodburn and afterward was going to continue down I5 in a caravan and leave them to visit my Mom in Grants Pass. About the time we started to climb the southern mountain passes the car started bucking like a Bronco. If I let my foot off the gas it would run OK, but it made pulling the hills a scary arduous thing. I nursed it to my Mom's with the moral support of the California Falcon Club members staying with me the entire way (still a huge thanks to them for that) and spent my "visit" changing all I could easily change. I thought I had it resolved by pulling the Pertronix and going back to points/condenser/new coil, but I didn't get 10 miles out of town and it was back to bucking with a vengeance! Way worse than before. Here I was on the side of the freeway, freaking a little, so I decided to reinstall the Pertronix. It was all I had to try. The car started (it always did) and off I went, fingers crossed. The issue was still present, but was far better. No worse than it was when I was when heading down. Thankfully, I made it all the way back to Seattle this way. Once I got over the passes and into flatland it was tolerable - but slow going. Once home I was better able to diagnose it as being the carburetor. It was also at this point I learned about the Spark-O-Magic. My carb needed this, but didn't have it. That story's here on the forum somewhere. But the moral of this story is that this Pertronix kit made what was a failing carburetor something that kept me from calling a tow truck. That would have been a very expensive tow.

From what I've heard, and saw, your friends are meticulous mechanics. Would not consider for an instant to detract from their ability. But we're all human and even I catch myself doing or missing something. Two heads are always better than one. Or maybe three or four in this case. Anyway, I learn from everyone.

Oh, OK, another short story about me... sorry. :NERVOUS:

Though I never got into the automotive field as a professional (something I regret to this day) - I have been working on cars (not just Falcons or Fords) since I was about 11 years old. That's when we moved to a small farm. At the age of 13 or 14 I joined the FFA (Future Farmers of America) in junior high school. In my first year I entered a regional contest which involved many things; from driving tractors, backing up trailers, using forklifts, etc. One contest was a mechanical aptitude test where we were presented with a tractor that the officials had purposefully disabled, removed parts, broken things, etc. We were told to find and write down as many things wrong with the tractor we could in 30 minutes. Out of about 100 entrants I won first place in this contest. Not only did I win - I found more things wrong with the tractor than all of the officials found wrong. Quite the feeling as a kid to have adults wrap their arms over my shoulder and say "Here's the boy who found more wrong with that tractor than we did." Fast-forward to 16 I was hired on at a local auto parts store. My Dad had been buying parts from them for years. It had a machine shop and a repair shop behind it. I learned the ropes in the machine shop and got to drive around delivering parts to all the mechanics around town. I got to know all of them very well and I used every opportunity to soak up a lot of information. I moving to Washington at 19 and got hired where I work today 4 months later as their plant maintenance mechanic. 36 years have past now and I've built, fixed, and repaired just about anything that exists in that place. At 21 I was tasked to build 9 very elaborate fuel-flow testing machines we sold to Ford and Chrysler for $60K a piece in the 80's ($165K in today's money). That was back in the carburetor days. We also have had a small fleet of company vehicles I was responsible for. I've since moved into management, but so wish I'd have stayed on the mechanical side. Way less stress and not that much less money. But I didn't and that's that.

Anyway, just tooting my own horn here. My apologies for that.

Also, being a bit self deprecating here, I know I come across to some (maybe everybody :WHATTHE:) as a know-it-all. It's only so I can maintain having the most posts on this forum and for no other reason. :rolleyes: Some have accused me of worse. Not saying you are, Don. I think you get me. Though I know in my head I'm just trying to be helpful, I know some have been offended when I try to explain things the way I do. I tend to be verbose. (hint, hint)

OK, so I think I'm done with that part of this post. I hope it came off as intended.

As for your car...

This is not a tight-engine, need for fast-idle issue. If you recall we had the idle screw hard-up against the tension spring and it didn't run. It may require a faster idle to keep from stalling while it breaks in, but we'll know better that when it is running correctly.

Thanks for posting the picture of the distributor springs. Yes, they are pull springs to bring the point plate back against the pull of the vacuum advance. They are also specific in-that their strength works in conjunction with the strength of the vacuum pulling against them to control the rate of spark advance. But there are no weights here, no mechanical advance.

Regarding the vapor lock, I was only expressing my concern as a "future potential" based upon the current heater hose routing. I too doubt it is contributed to the current issue, but knew from experience that the routing of that heater hose could come back to bite you in the future if left as it was.

Valve adjustment should be checked if we rule out all other possible issues. It is solid lifter motor, so something might have slipped.

There are so few places on this motor to induce a vacuum leak. I made a new carburetor base gasket to replace that one you used. I don't think it was leaking, but this one will work better. I had my vacuum gauge with me, but we'll hook it up next time.

I agree "shotgun" troubleshooting is poor troubleshooting. I suspected carburetor and went with that first and found some questionable things. We'll try that first and go on to the next if we need to.

Also, I had a couple yellow-top coils which I tested last night. Both were good so I restored one up in case we need to swap that. I'll bring it.

The carburetor is all checked and closed up. Apart from some screws I tightened more, an aluminum washer I changed to copper (like the original was), the warped plate I flattened, and a complete inspection again - the rest was pristine. It is not certain any of these things I found could have been the cause, but we'll cross our fingers.

I'm game to bring all of this out again this Saturday if you are available. Can't spend the whole day this time, but we can try a lot. Let me know.

:BEER:

[Luva65wagon]

Strut rod bushings are machined now. They machined very well because how stiff they are. I only did one bushing for each side and we can either use the thick on the back or the front. Either way we should have enough length of thread to get the washers and nuts on and we'll err towards minimizing lower control arm getting pulled forward too much.

5633

As I said earlier I don't really like the stiff nature of these bushings and did a little research yesterday on the brand stamped into them "RAMCOA" - and there are many messages on web sites about them. Many claim they fail very quickly - calling them Thermoplastic and not rubber. The failure is as I thought it might be; namely, cracking apart. But some say, "So far, so good." My guess is they do not need near the compression of rubber and people are over tightening them. I can't imagine they would endure much of that.

You'll just have to watch them and if you see any sign of failure, go to plan B (whatever that is). Time will be the judge how well they survive.

[dhbfaster]

Whew....endless thanks Roger. [BOW]
Saturday is a go as far as I am concerned.
Kenny, any chance you feel like making it down to finish the doors? or help with these last 2 brake lines? [BOW]
I'm going to try and focus tonight and tomorrow night on the other stuff it will take to go for a drive:

Last 2 brake lines at least bent into shape (then I'll need advice on bench bleeding the master if we don't have time to do it...but that seems easy enough.)
Tranny fluid (quick one), getting the tranny linkage back on and working.
IF I get a chance...muffler bracket and turn signal...but I can do that stuff any time.

Got your message on the other stuff Roger...



Huge thanks guys, and it will be only apple fritters this time.

[Luva65wagon]

Don,

I forgot to mention I went to make the wire for the Pertronix last night and... I think my wire connectors are at your place along with the thread insert kit. Hopefully you have two orange trays there. :NERVOUS:

If the carb works and the engine runs good, I should have some extra time left for some of the other mechanical bits like brake-lines. We will play it by ear.

I can tell, you are getting antsy to drive her! Been there so many times. It will be worth the wait, always is. :BIRTHDAY:

[dhbfaster]

Don't worry, your orange tray is here (but two of them? I'm thinking 1 big one- not sure about a 2nd one.) Plenty of connectors. I had moved it off the work bench so I could see it. I was thinking about doing a picture of my connector kit (about 1" by 2" by 1" in size) compared to your connector kit (about 18" by 12" by 2" in size) and making a comparison of my falcon knowledge compared to yours...but I decided yours wasn't big enough for an accurate comparison! Now that I hear there's another tray somewhere...[thumb]

I am getting a bit antsy...I would be anyway, but especially with that potential "extended business trip" I was telling you about.:doh: It is not all bad, but that is looking more and more imminent...more on that offline this weekend.

[dhbfaster]

PS...stopped by Napa at lunch. I'll have the valve cover gasket tomorrow just in case and the hose couplers for when I can get to extending and rerouting that heater hose. I looked in the old pictures, and it was slightly different than how I have it now. It still went left, but didn't hug the metal lines like I have it doing now.

[Luva65wagon]

Don't worry, your orange tray is here (but two of them? I'm thinking 1 big one- not sure about a 2nd one.) Plenty of connectors. I had moved it off the work bench so I could see it. I was thinking about doing a picture of my connector kit (about 1" by 2" by 1" in size) compared to your connector kit (about 18" by 12" by 2" in size)...

So this sounds to me as though I did bring my connectors. Yes, I also have a couple smaller sets I've made up. Can never have enough connectors.

Now that I think about it I may not have brought the Threadsert tray, just grabbed the tool and a couple inserts for your mirror install (which we should do as well, if possible). I'll verify that I have the tonight or in the morning, so if you don't see a 2nd tray, not to worry.

[Luva65wagon]

I looked in the old pictures, and it was slightly different than how I have it now. It still went left, but didn't hug the metal lines like I have it doing now.

It's bad enough that they didn't add a heater control valve to shut off the flow of water through the base of the carburetor - so even in the middle of summer hot water flows through that. It's just not needed except on those cold foggy mornings which are perfect for inducing throttle plate icing. In general fuel likes to be cool. On my wagon I added a manual heater control valve to stop the flow of hot water through the heater hose. Car ran so much better in the summer after doing that. Anyway, a heater hose hard-up against the fuel line should always be avoided when you can. Easy fix, though you'll have to drain some water to do it.

[dhbfaster]

Roger, do you feel like taking the upholstery stuffing and my old gas tank to the upcoming swap meet- is it worth any money for the club? Also- what about the engine stand? I don't have any room for it, but if it will bring the club some money it's a good thing. (Although I do hate to jinx things...you know how that goes. :WHATTHE:) I also have some other salable stuff if you feel like taking it.

Unless anyone wants the old hood (tweaked a bit) it's also going to recycling Saturday. It's some great yard art or painting practice for someone...but it has to go. This darn storage unit is costing me a fortune. Storage unit costs more in a year than all the stuff inside it is worth.:mad:

[dhbfaster]

One more question Roger...do I need to buy some kind of "ratchet strap" (I'm sure you called it something else) for the suspension, or are you confident we can get it done with the strap I have? or do you have one you can bring?

Meanwhile, I also have your cherry bomb to get back to you...and (of course this could be anywhere in my garage...but) I seem to be missing a 5 point 1/2" 3/8 socket if you happen to see an extra one floating around in your bag...:o

[Luva65wagon]

Don, I'll have a look at the stuff you have for the swap and advise when I see it.

I still have all the same bags and stuff we loaded last Saturday, so we'll look in them for the socket. I assume you meant 6-point 1/2" 3/8 socket. I've got oodles of spare sockets from a variety of collections over the years. I'll check to see if I have another spare and bring it just in case.

I was using the ratcheting strap to try and compress (foolishly) those hard rubber bushings. If I need anything like that, yours was OK for the need.

I hope I'll have time to get you headed in all the right directions at once.

Should be there about 9AM if I can get out of here by 8.

[redfalken]

Whew....endless thanks Roger. [BOW]
Saturday is a go as far as I am concerned.
Kenny, any chance you feel like making it down to finish the doors? or help with these last 2 brake lines? [BOW]

I wish I could but I'm booked this weekend. I'm shooting for a yard sale in a couple of weeks so I'm pulling up my stash from the basement. And am going to detail my old Ranger to get it ready for sale. Plus my poor Falcon is covered in a thick layer of pine tree pollen! And taxes!!!

But next time, I'm there. It's getting close!

[dhbfaster]

Thanks Kenny...I know how it goes. good luck on all that this weekend. ( Taxes? :WHATTHE: Glad my wife does that.)

[PhilC]

Too much to read to catch up right now. IIRC, Ford's name for the advance system used on the early Falcons was Load-o-matic.

I did like you Roger, ditched the original and went DII when I built the 200 for my '62 with 32/36 Weber clone.

Many replaced the rubber bushings with polyurethane when they became the rage. Poly is great when the suspension components are built to handle the additional stress placed on them, not so with the meager Falcon parts.

As mentioned before, it's been about 15yrs since I messed with this stuff, but if my foggy memory is close, there was a compromise between poly and rubber in a material called "milodyne" or some similar name. This material was stiffer than rubber, but not as stiff as poly, and prevented problems with cracking strut rod frame mounts. I can't remember now if I actually found a correct set or ended up using the more plastic version (not true polyurethane).

Anyway, a few thoughts before I head off to other demands. :)

Phil

[ew1usnr]

Many replaced the rubber bushings with polyurethane when they became the rage. Poly is great when the suspension components are built to handle the additional stress placed on them, not so with the meager Falcon parts. ... there was a compromise between poly and rubber in a material called "milodyne" or some similar name. This material was stiffer than rubber, but not as stiff as poly, and prevented problems with cracking strut rod frame mounts. I can't remember now if I actually found a correct set or ended up using the more plastic version (not true polyurethane).

This may be what Phil is referring to. From my notes:

High performance strut rod bushings:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Global-West/459/SRB-4/10002/-1?parentProductId=760572

Fits 1962 – 1965 Ford Falcon. “If adjustable strut rods are not in your budget, high-density rubber strut rod bushings would be your best alternative. The rubber bushings are stiffer than the factory type and have just enough forgiveness to allow the suspension to move without overstressing the strut rod. These bushings are recommended if the car is used as a daily driver and is not raced.” “High durometer bushings will control lower control arm location with limited deflection and still allow pivot over standard factory durometer. Provides better alignment, cornering, and braking control. Easy installation. No modifications needed. Too high of a durometer bushing in this location can cause strut rod failure due to too much resistance in the direction of pivot. That is why there is rubber in this location over other high density plastics.”

[dhbfaster]

Thanks Rogers help this morning...Falcon purrrs like a kitten. Carb perfect now. Strut rods on. Air cleaner on. Holes drilled for mirrors with Rogers coaching, all brake lines on (still have to bleed it all). Heater hose also rerouted.
After the Sounders game tonight I plan to install the sway bar and call it a day.
[BOW][BOW][BOW];:);:);:)

[Luva65wagon]

Too much to read to catch up right now.

No doubt my meaningless ramblings.

[AGREE]


IIRC, Ford's name for the advance system used on the early Falcons was Load-o-matic.

Yep, that's it. I like Spark-o-Magic better tho. ;)


...a material called "milodyne" or some similar name. This material was stiffer than rubber, but not as stiff as poly, and prevented problems with cracking strut rod frame mounts.

Don will just need to watch these. See how they last. I'm pretty familiar with Poly, these were not that, but it might be this Milodyne stuff.

[Luva65wagon]

Thanks Rogers help this morning...Falcon purrrs like a kitten. Carb perfect now. Strut rods on. Air cleaner on. Holes drilled for mirrors with Rogers coaching, all brake lines on (still have to bleed it all). Heater hose also rerouted.
After the Sounders game tonight I plan to install the sway bar and call it a day.
[BOW][BOW][BOW];:);:);:)

Wish I would have had another hour to give today, we might have got the brakes bled. It was good to hear it purr though.

[PhilC]

No doubt my meaningless ramblings.
Not at all Roger, just too many demands on my time and brain cells these days. Do enjoy reading your posts, always good.

I checked and that material is milodyne. One of the other issues with poly is breaking strut rods and that issue continued into mid-60s Mustangs.

Falcon strut rods are different 62 and later, so a fit issue will be realized when used on 60/61. Check this link - http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/1960-1961-STRUT-ROD-BUSHINGS-UNTIL-10-15-61-18p268.htm

Falcons with a date of manufacture 10/15/61 and earlier require a different busing. Don't know which ones Don got, but my guess is they were for a Falcon built after that date. I remembered this because the strut rods for my son's 61 Futura were noticeably smaller than those on my 62 Futura.

Not that it will be a problem, highly doubt there will be any spirited driving in Granddad's Falcon. Under those conditions, plain old rubber would do well. :cool:

[redfalken]

Glad to hear the engine's running like a top now! Sounds like you're pretty close to a maiden voyage around the 'hood?!

[Luva65wagon]

I checked and that material is milodyne. One of the other issues with poly is breaking strut rods and that issue continued into mid-60s Mustangs.

Falcon strut rods are different 62 and later, so a fit issue will be realized when used on 60/61. Check this link - http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falc...-61-18p268.htm

Hopefully Milodyne is good in reality. My first experience with it.

I'm pretty sure Don indicated getting one of the two bushing sets from FalconParts.com - and looking there now they say you have to reuse hardware. I also looked at RockAuto and their kits were showing as OEM rubber on pre-61 listings only. Everything newer (larger) were POLY and out-of-stock IDK.

He received hardware with both kits he had. He also indicated being aware of the mid-year switch-over. He'll have to fill in the blanks regarding what kits he got and where, if interested. I just recall that one kit was, in general, all too big (I think these were from FalconParts). One set had ID holes correct to fit the strut, but didn't fit to the frame holes. This was the Milodyne set and carved easily, so I carved then to fit into the frame hole pockets. That, combined with machining one bushing on each side, got these installed.

So this was a real mis-match of stuff we saw. Both kits had washers and nuts, and neither had the same size nuts and neither set of nuts fit his struts! One set was too big (in the kit we never touched) and one set was too small (or metric?), and it was from this kit the bushings we used - along with his original washers, which were smaller OD, which helped a lot.

All in all I think we pulled off a good Cuban retrofit.

:shift:

[dhbfaster]

Yea...on the strut rod nuts...the nuts from both new kits were too big. The first kit was from Macs., 2nd kit after whatever that date is...was from Falcon parts. Neither fit. Fortunately I painted the "big washers" before Roger came over so we could reuse them.
I haven't had time to put it all together yet...but plan to when I have a chance to enjoy this investigation. For now I'm slammed at work with a bit of OT lately and probably some business trips coming up...and I want to focus on getting the car on the road and then finished so I can invite my Dad out for a ride on fathers day. I already sent him (and my mom too) Alaskan airline gift certificates as their xmas presents...

I got the sway bar on yesterday...and unfortunately all the other stuff on the non-falcon list trumped getting any further. Hopefully I can pick off the other things on the list one by one over the next couple weeks...:shift::shift::shift:

[Luva65wagon]

Yea...on the strut rod nuts...the nuts from both new kits were too big.

I tend to remember one set too big (sloppy big) and one set not quite starting, but smaller. Regardless, both sets were unusable. Only the bushings were made to work.

June 19th? You have plenty of time to finish if you get to stay around. In "Roger" hours you have maybe 8 more to go. :ROTFLMAO:

[dhbfaster]

Roger hours 8....Don hours about 64!
Well, maybe not that many...we'll see if we get any more road blocks.

[dhbfaster]

Ahh....the small pleasures of getting one little thing done.:D
Both mirror installed tonight. :3g:

[ew1usnr]

Your car, unlike most cars, has only vacuum advance. Most cars have mechanical and vacuum advance. Ford's better idea was the Spark-O-Matic system, or some such name as that. This is only a vacuum advance and uses a special carburetor to feed the correct vacuum to the distributor to advance your timing.

Hello, Roger and Don.

You guys made me wonder what a Load-O-Matic and "Spark-O-Matic" (Spark Control Valve) were all about. I found this link: See: http://classicinlines.com/Loadomatic.asp that explains it well.

But, he says that Load-O-Matic was used "on all V-8s until 1967" which is incorrect. V-8 Falcons came with distributors with centrifugal and vacuum advance in 1963.

[MacDee]

Of course, ClassicInlines deals (dealt?) strictly with the inline six!

[Luva65wagon]

I spent some time addressing this a couple years ago too. Here's at least one post I made on the subject.

http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10161&postcount=424

I don't know of any V8 lacking mechanical advance, but know of many without vacuum advance. But I'm no expert - as the post linked above proved. :o

[dhbfaster]

Just a quick update, work has been more relentless than usual lately,:doh::doh::doh: but....

last weekend Jason and I got the master cylinder and brake system bled. Sprung a couple leaks on the lines, :WHATTHE: but I think we caught it and got it cleaned up without damage to the paint and nothing seems to be leaking now. Now I need to get around to adjust them all.

Then we started it up and let it run for a bit..noticed a little mist in the air...and found a leak at the top radiator hose that quickly got worse, so I shut it down. Haven't had a chance to get back and check it out yet. Hopefully it was just loose! :o

Now that I got the transmission linkage hooked up "exactly" like it was before...it doesn't shift from inside the car. :ROTFLMAO: (of course...) so, time to figure that out.

I don't expect to get much falcon time this weekend...but, step by step I'm getting closer!:rocker:

[Luva65wagon]

Oh the joys of car restoration. [yay]

Hopefully you remembered I only ran the lines but didn't get them all tightened up as I was running late. If so new brake lines I've found really need to be cinched-up good. As you recall on the carburetor line (same kind of flare fitting) that thing just wouldn't seal without unreasonably extra effort of compressing the fitting.

But glad it is all working. You should post a picture of the Master Cylinder lines now that it is all done.

Radiator hose leak? Something we messed with with the heater hose??? Hope not.

Does the shifting occur when the car is off, but not when it is running? You should be able to cycle through the gears with the engine off. The levers you set so meticulously to the original points may not be good points for all the new tight bushings, if any. These levers are normally set and tightened with the transmission in neutral (rods removed so you can make sure the transmission arms are both neutral) and the levers on the column set at equal places. Often there is a hole to shove a pin through to lock the column levers together in neutral. Then, with those big nuts loose, you stick them in the column lever holes and then you tighten them. If everything is shifting fine engine off, then make sure your clutch pedal adjustment is correct.

Getting close to a drive on the boardwalk! Well, on the road next to the boardwalk. [thumb]

[dhbfaster]

Shifter- Jason came over for a bit Saturday and while he was looking at the shift linkage I worked the shift a bit...and now miraculously it seems to work perfect (without the car running.)

Clutch - The clutch seems to have little (almost no) spring return tension. I added the spring underneath that goes to the belly bar which it didn't have before...inside by the pedal should be the same spring (and it also had this problem before...but it is worse now.) I didn't get a chance to get my head under there yet...is this something that is adjustable? I couldn't tell from the book. I plan on trying to get under there tonight.

Hose leak- It was the upper radiator hose (that goes to the pump). I snugged it up and put a new clamp on there...haven't had a chance to run it again yet. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow. I hope it's not the fitting on the radiator, but hard to tell by just looking.

Brake lines-- I DID know that they were not all tightened. I went around and snugged them up good before bleeding- except I missed one at the back hose. It was one of the lines at the front T fitting that leaked. I loosened them, then realigned the line and re-tightened and couldn't get it to leak again. I will post a pic.

[Luva65wagon]

There is a big return spring that is part of the pedal assembly. One end of this spring is attached to a threaded adjuster to add tension to this spring and the other end is hooked over the pedal. It's adjusted up near the dash-side of the spring with a wrench. There is an instruction regarding this adjustment in the manual, as I recall, and I've done it before a couple time, but can't recall the exact tension. It will add a good amount of feel to the pedal you may not be feeling if too loose. The spring below (at the bell housing to belly bar) is really only to keep the push rod engaged to the lever as it moves forth and back. It is the pedal assembly spring, and pressure plate that offer the tension at the pedal.

Here's what my pedals have had (bad picture off the Internet). You can see the adjusting screw and nut at the end of the spring.

5644

Here is something from a later Mustang and you see there is no adjuster on this one. Because a 60-61 Falcon is a oddball from 62 and newer Falcon (meaning they had first-off designs that got changed in 62; like, the smaller strut rods) you'll need to look and see what you have.

5645

[dhbfaster]

Ok, got home for lunch today, got all untucked from work and got my camera under there-and then I did find the instructions and specs in the book. Here's a pic of what's there (which now clarifies what I was seeing in the book) and now hopefully I can figure out those instructions tonight. Thanks Roger!

[Luva65wagon]

You can already see there is some pull on that spring. I'm not so sure you're going to gain much more here. Spring might be growing weak, but I can't image why.

:shift:

It is an 8.5" clutch, which never had much leg-power-need to work it. So if everything checks out, you may have to wait and see how it feels driving. You can increase the spring-strength down yonder. That can't hurt much, but you will want to make sure you have lube in the joint where that push-rod goes into the lever. I have see many of these wear a hole all the way through for lack of lubrication.

[dhbfaster]

Yes...I did notice that on the spring...and not much room left to adjust.
It's so weak, at the moment, you have to pull the pedal back up with your toe...we'll see if it tightens up enough. If not...it's yet one more $13 wear item available from falconparts.com. :doh: but on the other hand, glad they have it if I need it...:o
I did lube that push rod end...and it seemed pretty well lubed before...if you remember how much grease was down there.

[Luva65wagon]

The way that spring and pedal work is odd. The spring both resists your push and aids your push. This all depends on the adjustment of the pedal stop and clutch rod adjustment. When the pedal is up, this spring is to aid keeping the throw-out bearing off the clutch pressure plate with the aid of the spring down-yonder, but when pushing on the pedalit is supposed to aid pressing the clutch as the spring contact point goes over center. The Pressure plate springs, now, should be enough to push the pedal off the floor again and then this spring going back over-center the other direction and brings the pedal off the floor and against the stop again.

I found a good site where a guy named "Joe" shows this process in pictures:

http://www.joesfalcon.com/page26.html

You'll see the series of pictures and further detail with this series of pedal movements near the bottom of the page.

Though this is a good set of pictures describing this function, there are issues still with his pedal assembly. There is a plastic spring bushing missing on one end that needs to be there or things will not move smoothly. And pivot at the right time.

Also the adjustment of the pedal side and clutch push rod work hand in hand. You need to have enough pressure against the pressure plate to overcome the tension of this pedal spring. Too much tension on the pedal spring may keep the pressure plate from having the force to push back.

[dhbfaster]

Not much time this week, but three small steps forward and only one step backwards.

Muffler...dialed in. As you may recall, it was pointing towards the gas tank and bumping against it at the rear. I took it off and was able to put the end into the vice and tweak it the right direction. Then I customized the bracket in the rear a bit and tightened it all up and...low and behold it seems perfect and doesn't seem to move a bit. :shift:

Engine - I roughed up the inside of the pulleys a bit and then re-tightened the belt...no more squeak when you rev it. [thumb]

Radiator hose leak- replaced it with a modern clamp and problem fixed. Replaced the others with new clamps too. Have run it twice now for about 15-20 min and no leaks. :o

Locks - I still have to finish the locks...but I found one of the 2" buttons I needed on eBay and ordered it...so at least that is on the way.

Door Panels - So, when I should have been working on the clutch adjustment...I got distracted on the door panels. I did the plastic on two doors. Got the rear passenger side panel out and held it in place...low and behold it's about 3/4" too tall. :doh::doh: So, no big deal, but it's going to take a little customizing. :mad: Meanwhile, i got the drivers door panel out which looks like it will fit perfect but ran out of time to put it on. They both seem very snug in the channels. Can anyone point me to a tutorial somewhere online on how to put these things on without messing them up? I swear I've seen one before but searched the forum and youtube and can't seem to find anything now. [BOW][BOW]

Oh...here are some pics of the dual master installed.
Now I still need to adjust the clutch and the brakes.

[Jeff W]

Is this what you need or are you set?

[redfalken]

...Meanwhile, i got the drivers door panel out which looks like it will fit perfect but ran out of time to put it on. They both seem very snug in the channels. Can anyone point me to a tutorial somewhere online on how to put these things on without messing them up? I swear I've seen one before but searched the forum and youtube and can't seem to find anything now. [BOW][BOW]...

If they are snug in the channels you may want to consider tweaking the channels open a little if you can do it without damaging the finish. Maybe a stiff putty knife would be enough to pry it open a little.

You will need to be able to slide the panels into the channels from the latch side. Use a broom handle placed between panels and door frame to bow the panel out in the middle and work it over the window crank (handle removed of course) as you slide toward the hinge side.

[dhbfaster]

Those are the ones Jeff!
I bought one on eBay and already asked the guy if he has two more...still waiting for a response.
You willing to give those up? How do you have extra?

[Jeff W]

Hi Don, as long as your dues are paid up, I will gladly give them to you - one of the benefits of membership :BEER:
Let me know if you need me to USPS or bring to the meeting or swap meet for a hand-off.

Why do I have them? I have a small stash of parts for emergencies, nothing like Roger's as I don't have the room. Getting your car on the road before father's Day qualifies.:shift:

[Luva65wagon]

Hey - I'm way out of room too! No more storage space! I use the roof of the wagon as storage space! :WHATTHE:

Have fun with those door panels Don. I had to use a closet rod (1.5" dowel, uh hum, I mean pole) as a means to get enough curve into the panel to get the two ends into the upper and lower tracks. Once into the tracks, top and bottom, slowly work the pole out and get all the clips into the holes and finally snap it in. And hopefully not, like me, have the window track clip pop off and have to pull it all apart again!

[dhbfaster]

Happy Memorial Day everyone! Mann....3 weeks of falcon withdrawal. I was sent on assignment to Burlington Ontario. Back for Memorial Day weekend with the family. looks like my Canadian assignment is going to be a quite a while, but not so long that I'm moving the falcon. I have another trip or two back home this summer so I hope I can get her driving....so close!

Jeff, the eBay guy did send me three of the long door lock buttons...good to go there. Now I just need to finish the doors! Thanks very much for your offer.

Meanwhile, hopefully I can find some Car shows up there with some Canadian falcons- the Frontenac.

[dhbfaster]

Wow! The Frontenac was made only in 1961, and in Oakville, Ontario! At the ford plant there! That ford plant Is just about 10 miles down the highway from where I will be working. We supply the CHMSL to that plant for the Ford Edge and one of the Lincoln models made there today. CHMSL is center high middle stop light.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Frontenac

[dhbfaster]

What?.. Burlington Ontario where I will be living has a falcon club!

[ew1usnr]

What?.. Burlington Ontario where I will be living has a falcon club!

Hello, Don.

E-mail them and let them know when you will be there. I am sure that they would be flattered by your interest. I would love to see a group photograph of their Frontenacs.

I am looking forward to seeing a video of you backing your pretty little red Falcon sedan out of the garage and driving off down the street.

Dennis.

[dhbfaster]

Hi Guys...Falcon day!
I'm finally back home for a week and two weekends in September.:banana:

Better yet I have permission to dedicate Saturday September the 17th as a falcon day to try and "finish" Ganddads falcon.
The two goals are:

Door locks on two doors and door panels installed on four doors.

Clutch and shifting adjustment...if I'm not able to get it done the week before.

I can't wait, and if any of you club members, especially all of you my board of directors for this project over the last three years are available to lend a hand....MAYBE the maiden voyage can happen on the 17th. Pm me to let me know if you can make it so I can buy plenty of donuts.::D:D:rocker::rocker:

[Luva65wagon]

Sorry Don, I've been otherwise indisposed - as apparently everyone else has been too.

Sadly the month of September is always bad for me, but I'm also 'stuck' helping a friend with a kitchen/bath remodel, which is making it that much harder a month for me. We're also having to shift the club meeting a week early to accommodate me making the meeting. So as much as I'd really like to be there, far more than where and what I'm already locked into, I'm not going to be available this month at all.

I hope some of the rest of you can find a day to go help Don reach his goal.

[dhbfaster]

No worries Roger...this thing will get done one baby step at a time.
Oh...sorry, I meant one step at a time eh?

[ew1usnr]

No worries Roger...this thing will get done one baby step at a time. Oh...sorry, I meant one step at a time eh?

You are going to have one of the coolest little Falcons on the planet, Don.

[SmithKid]

Don, Sorry to have to say this, but..... I am going to be out of pocket for that weekend too :mad:. I'm committed to be several hundred miles away assisting a summer neighbor take delivery of his new summer abode (I've been helping him prepare the site for the last several weeks). Possibly if an additional weekend follows or replaces?

[BadBird]

It doesn't look like the 17th is going to work out. I hope you are able to get something done.
Carol's mother had a couple of strokes and along with her dementia issues, Carol will not leave her alone.
Carol said I cannot drive down there by myself because of my health issues. I again, am sorry. Larry

[Luva65wagon]

Man - all the Falcon Elves are taking September off! When will you be back in the neighborhood?

[dhbfaster]

Got in late last night. Man...no worries guys. Sorry you can't make it Gene, and Larry prayers here for your Mother in law and you. Take care of yourself.

I should actually have a trip back in October, but not finalized yet.

I have been working on it today...got all the shifting working, adjusted the clutch total distance...but it still seems like there's not enough spring pressure. Started to try and replace the spring...man what a job on my back now that the seat is in....saving that to finish later.:doh::doh:

Got the lock finished on the passenger font, BUT I have been noticing the door handle buttons getting stuck-and only on the front doors. Figured they were just tight but lubed them...and it didn't help. Took a look inside with the cell phone- see the pic attached. There seems to be a big gap between the door button push rod and the "paddle" lever that triggers the lock. is this normal? It seems like I would be better off filling that gap. I want to get this taken care of before I get the door panels on for sure. Since you can't be here in person...you can enjoy my challenges via the forum....appreciate the advice as always.[BOW]

Working on the locks for the last back door...I think I need more sleep before I figure this out! Jason did the other one and I have the plastic over it now. Off for a few honey-do's and hoping to get some advice from you guys on the front door buttons by later this evening. :D

[dhbfaster]

Just bumping this up to the top guys...here's another pic. Any thoughts on this gap between the button and the paddle?

[Jeff W]

I don't think mine looked anything like that. I recall my button was just a straight peg, not anything bent like you show. I don't think I will be much help.

Looky at all the different actuators... I had no idea.

http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/Outside-Door-Handles-d22.htm

I would take a second look as the assembly. I wonder if the paddle is hanging up.

[Luva65wagon]

I'm in total headless chicken mode Don - sorry.

I'm with Jeff on this one. Never seen that setup before. My '63 has a straight pin and in 64/65 they have a hinge affair of sorts. Might be worth also browsing the TFFN (ugh) and see if anyone there, with a '61, has the same thing.

I do know the gap on the straight pin version is maybe less than an 1/8" away. This seems nearly 3/8-1/2"