It's the wife's fault!!!

[Nathan289]

The wife found a 1963 falcon squire project.
its a bucket seat console car.
Falcon Club of America shows it to be 1 of 1491 produced.
dont have her home yet, next weekend.

Excited to start another project.. this one will be 100% numbers matching

[Jeff W]

Nice to see another wagon. Be sure to start a thread on the build.

[doghows]

She doesn't look to rusty, and pretty straight to boot. Got to love the faux wood trim on the sides!
Wish my wife would find me projects, she just gets mad every time I bring one home. After 30 years you would think she would expect it by now.
Good luck with that one Nathan. If you need any stuff I met a great guy down in Longview with tons of stuff. :rocker:

[Nathan289]

I do need a horn ring and a winning lotto ticket

The center console has an ash tray that faces the rear.

[redfalken]

Nice project! Looks like it's all there. Maybe we'll see it at the 2015 Mini-Regional?

[Nathan289]

Kinda hoping so..

[Nathan289]

Im looking for a set of hub caps..

62/63 deluxe covers. Supposedly used on the econolines too.

[redfalken]

The club has a booth at the Monroe swap meet next month. I'll see if I can spot any when we take a break and walk through.

What sort of condition/price are you looking for?

[SmithKid]

I think he's like most of us.... he's looking for NOS for $5/set. :) If a set is acquired locally, I can make arrangements to get them to him.

[Nathan289]

Lets say I dont want to pay $270 for the set on ebay.

I want driver condition. No dents but a little scratched is ok.

But I'll take nos for $5..

[Luva65wagon]

Missed this one.

Pretty cool wagon. Looks like it had all the options you could get.

Looks like you should be able to have it all done by the start of show season this year. :shift:

[Nathan289]

Roger

I dont know about that. Im hoping for 2015.

[Nathan289]

Pictures of the new car

We left home at 3:30 am. Got home at 9:30pm

We found all kinds of weather driving home. Including snow.

Heck I woke up to a couple of inches this morning.

[Nathan289]

The motor was frozen solid..

I pulled the head and found a factory ford head gasket.

[Nathan289]

Found a fomoco stamp on the generator.

Has a weird pc valve???

Also has a different radiator cap and master cylinder cap.

[Nathan289]

Tore the engine apart. Got it freed up.:rocker:

A little rust in the cylinders. The wrist pins are frozen.

The oil pump is fomoco with a 1962 part number
the bearings are ford as well abd show even wear.. but they are worn to the copper.

[Nathan289]

Jen pulled carpet and removed sound Deadner.

Need to go get my cherry picker / engine hoist and pull the engine.

There is 50 years of dirt on it. I scraped half an inch of crap off the timing cover just to get to the bolts.

Need to order a toe board and one front pan.

[Jeff W]

That is a very strange looking console ... where are the heads of the carriage bolts that hold on the hinge:ROTFLMAO:

I think it is the wrong one and you should send it to me.:banana:

What do you know about the history of the car? It doesn't look hacked up and a fun project.

[Jeff W]

Found a fomoco stamp on the generator.

Has a weird pc valve???

Also has a different radiator cap and master cylinder cap.

I had that same weird pcv on my wagon. I was told it was the California Smog Version. It kept poppong out so I replaced it with Gary's old draft tube.

My car was assembled in Sacramento.

[ew1usnr]

Here is a cool (Australian) advertisement cross section of a 1963 Falcon Wagon. It says that the cargo area in the Squire wagons was carpeted rather than having a rubber mat.

3722

[Nathan289]

The history of the car is really unknown to us.

It is a Denver dso car. Built at the Loraine Ohio plant.

From what I can tell we are the 4th owners.

Let's work our way backwards. We bought it Saturday 04/26/2014

Tony, The guy I bought it from. Purchased it in March 2010 from a Josh outside Delta Colorado.

This is where the story gets uncertain. Story is josh who I supposed to be younger than me. Remembers seeing the car drive a round town as a kid. One day he finds it for sale and buys it. The car is a non runner at this time and Josh is going to restore it. Like everyone else, life gets in the way and he starts a family and the car gets sold.

Someone put money into it, I'm not sure why.. it has new tune up parts, cap rotor, points, condenser, but original fomoco wires that has number six wire fried to a crisp.
New starter and solenoid.

A carburetor that has never been touched.. it was a ball of dirt, but it works.. I think.

Not sure when the motor froze. But its been a non runner +4 years.

The starter that still looks new has a Napa sticker on it dated 2009.

the odometer says 115k I believe it. It still has biased ply tires on the rear.

I have no idea if any of the electrics work.

[Nathan289]

Here is a cool (Australian) advertisement cross section of a 1963 Falcon Wagon. It says that the cargo area in the Squire wagons was carpeted rather than having a rubber mat.

3722

that's cool. I've never seen carpet in the cargo area.

I have a blue rubber mat. Its still soft and plyable.

Under it is the cleanest nicest looking floor pan I've ever seen in a falcon. At least in any of the ones I buy.

[Nathan289]

I had that same weird pcv on my wagon. I was told it was the California Smog Version. It kept poppong out so I replaced it with Gary's old draft tube.

My car was assembled in Sacramento.

Sacramento? You mean San Jose? Milpitas to be exact.. :BIRTHDAY:

[Jeff W]

Sacramento? You mean San Jose? Milpitas to be exact.. :BIRTHDAY:

San Jose... Yes. I bought it from Sacramento... Getting old.

[Luva65wagon]

Looks like it should be a fun build.

I always upgrade to PCV rather than draft tubes, but that looks like a draft tube feed into the top of the carb? Would probably have made for quickly gunked up carbs or air filter.

Before you buy any parts for it - I'm going to be sort through all the stuff I have this week to prepare bringing it all to the swap meet. Would rather some of it go to club members if they need some of it. I'll inventory it so others can have an opportunity to get something they need.

[Nathan289]

You happen to have a good clutch set?:ROTFLMAO:

I know nothing about the transmission. . You still have those 2.77 trannies?

I could use a console liner and latch catch.

A correct cigarette lighter.

Plus many more needs

Pcv runs to air cleaner.

[Luva65wagon]

May possibly have all that. I bought a supposedly rebuilt 2.77 transmission a couple weeks ago. Have not opened it up yet to see, but I have it for sale cheap. And having swapped to a V8 in the Ranchero I do have a low-low mileage clutch and various other tranny parts cheap as well.

Make a list and I'll set what I have aside and we'll wheel and deal.

[Nathan289]

Roger.

I sold you a brand new clutch set about three years ago. That is why I did the laughing emoticon

But I might need those things. I have no idea what condition they are in.

I also gave you a 2.77 trans from a 61 falcon.

How much for your transmission and clutch.parts?

Im not sure there's enough room here to post a list of what I need.


Oooh a tail light lenses for a 63.... do need one of those

[Luva65wagon]

I got the humor. ;)

I'm still digging through this stuff, but the clutch disc and pressure plate were just removed. Have a few flywheels too. One I was going to use, but after breaking a bolt on the day of the swap I swapped the flywheel instead.

I know I ended up with a transmission a few year back, probably for the swap meet since I don't recalling having a personal need for one. Not sure who finally got that one. So many parts have come through my hands. This one I paid for, but it wasn't much in light of the other things I got too.

I have a tail light lens. Two, actually, but only one that's decent.

I found a lighter too - does your knobs have the chrome insert?

No console parts though.

[Nathan289]

Chrome insurers? Good question.
other than taking a picture of the console.
And a quick look of the interior and saying YUK I have no idea if it has chrome knobs.
I did notice the black cigarette lighter though. Wonder why a black knob stood out. Hmmm

Here's a tough part to find that I can use... the spare tire cover..:WHATTHE:

Im searching ebay... but no luck.

I known of a parts car. I need to see if he still has it and wants to part it.

I'll sit down and make a list one of these nights that I'm not too busy.

Thanks roger

[doghows]

Nathan, the guy I got my trim from down in Longview has everything you need. And I do mean everything. He has at least three wagons down there right now that are complete. I'm sure I saw at least two of those spare tire covers you speak of plus any other do dad you need. When I get to work this am I will post up his info. He does ship most of the parts but if there is anything he won't ship, we will get it picked up and at least get it to Seattle so it can start making its way over to you.
His name is Steve Averre (Avery) and be ready he can talk more than I can. :ROTFLMAO:[thumb]

[MacDee]

I had that same weird pcv on my wagon. I was told it was the California Smog Version. It kept poppong out so I replaced it with Gary's old draft tube.
I'm so happy my draft tube went to a good home! Didn't the rest of the engine go to the metal recyclers...?

Man, that sure looks like a sweet wagon! I hope I get to see it in person some day.

[doghows]

If anyone is looking for parts call this guy:

Steve Averre 1-360-430-0143

He has several parts cars and tons of stuff. ( just not a 61 bumper braket) tell him you spoke with me and I'm sure he'll have 99% of what you need and very reasonable on his pricing. [thumb]

[Nathan289]

Thanks I'll give him a call.

Wonder if he has squire trim

[doghows]

I thought I saw a blue wagon out there with the squire trim. Not positive on that however. :)

[Nathan289]

Guy is in Longview?

[doghows]

Yes Longview down where the mini was last year.

[Nathan289]

Steve,

Is he expecting my call or am I cold calling?

I'll call on Friday when I have time to gab.

[Nathan289]

I removed the fuel pump and cleaned it up. Its an older ac Delco pump.. its at least stamped ac.. has a part number and the old FOMOCO spin on filter canister. I'm cleaning the canister with wd40 and its removing the dirt and leaving the paint.

I took the pump a part and I'm going to look into getting a rebuild kit for it.

The coil is an original mustard top and if it tests good, I'll clean it up and use it too. I'm hoping to find a fomoco stamp or something under the dirt.

I found an NOS head gasket. I think it would be cool to rebuild the engine with the steel shim head gasket.

Got home from work today and the right front tire was flat..:bicker:
guess I need to order those tires.. I wanted to wait till the car was drive able.
I'll see if I can locate the leak and get it fixed.

Unfortunately I don't have time to work on it, till Friday..

I got 12 minutes to my bedtime. Better go search craigslist for parts.

[doghows]

Nathan it's a cold call but if you want I can call him tomorrow and give him a heads up. He does this to supplement his retirement so he gets calls from people all day, so nothing new to him. Just tell him I told you to call him. I have about 30 of his business cards up here and I told him I was going to pass them out to the club so he's ready for some calls.

[Nathan289]

Steve,

I'll call just thought I'd check before getting us into hot water.

Anybody see the 63 grill on ebay for $1100?:ROTFLMAO:

too rich for my blood... that's almost what I paid for the car...

I'll hit him up for a spare tire cover for sure. If he has a squire I'll see if he has some trim pieces and maybe a passenger fender.

Well I gotta get to bed.. struck out on craigslist..

[Nathan289]

Tested the coil today.

It works well enough to run the sprint. Which has two extra cylinders :ROTFLMAO:

So I cleaned it and under all the dirt I found this .

[jeff0547]

Hi Nathan, my name is Jeff and Tony told me I was 3rd or 4th in line for that car. I'm glad that it went to someone who appreciates what it is.

I thought I'd share with you an article, on the chance you hadn't seen it. It is about one way to revive that Squire trim. I hope you enjoy it and find it useful. Good luck with your "new" Squire. [thumb]

http://www.rickwrench.com/wood.html

[BillP 98201]

I'm seeing lots of "while I'm at its" in your future :)

[Nathan289]

Bill,

The whole car is a while I'm at it.
Its been 8 years since I've done this big of a project.
This is a whole new project as I plan on a correct numbers matching restore.

Jeff,

Bookmarked the web page for future reference.

[falcon cobra]

I am not sure what a number matching falcon is. the motors may say C3 or C4 or what ever and the vin tag never has any motor numbers on it, just the kind of motor and trans and paint color and where it was built:D...jh

[Nathan289]

No progress today.. I had to fix a Fairlane as the wife broke it.


See my want ad once it passes moderation.

[Luva65wagon]

I am not sure what a number matching falcon is. the motors may say C3 or C4 or what ever and the vin tag never has any motor numbers on it, just the kind of motor and trans and paint color and where it was built:D...jh

Yeah, I guess with factory Fords it would be better called "Period Correct" as opposed to numbers matching. I'm sure Cobra's and Shelby's they stamped numbers into things.

A Squire Wagon probably deserves being as close to original as you can get... not that I wouldn't resist improving the safety-related things.

[Nathan289]

When I say numbers matching, I mean.. what's on the door tag is in the car.

Tag says Cambridge blue metallic paint. That's what color I'll paint it.
Tag says blue interior bucket seats with console.. the car will have that.
Tag says 170 engine... unless I can't rebuild it, it will have that. If I have to replace it, it will be replaced with a 200.

It has seat belts.. they say fomoco.. supposedly dealer installed.. which I doubt. Ones blue ones tan:confused:

i'll change master cylinders.
I'll get rid of the points.

Any improvements will be purely bolt on and not noticeable.

So no 17" wheels no 12" disc brakes. No 5.0 coyote engine :doh: no six speed manual trans:doh:

basically non of the modes I usually like to do.

[jeff0547]

Most Squires have been Red, Black or White, with an occasional Green one thrown in the mix. This is the first Blue one I have ever seen. With Buckets and console, it just keeps getting more rare.

[Nathan289]

Jeff,

Can't say I've ever seen a green squire. I've seen a 65 squire that was blue.

I also know where a 63 squire is that is glacier blue.. that real lite ice blue color. I can't say its original though I never investigated.

I know of two squires in my neck of the woods. Both were for sale last year. The pair were way over priced.. like I saw one on barret Jackson sell for $18,000 so my wagon must be worth half that. That kind of over priced.:ROTFLMAO:

I'm going to see if the guy still has them, if he does and he won't part out the parts car I'll forward his contact info.

I know of a bucket seat mercury comet villager that's like 90% original.. not sure if its for sale, but I could ask. It probably wouldn't come cheap though.

[jeff0547]

Here's a blue one I found while surfing the web. It's actually very pretty.

http://falconclub.0catch.com/steves62.html

[Nathan289]

Jeff,

That's a very cool 62 squire. Blue on blue too. Wonder which blue that is? Not dark enough to be oxford blue.

You have any pictures of the green squire? The only green one I've seen is that highly modified one out of Colorado or Utah.. it was in all the magazines.

Wish I could say I worked on the wagon, but I didn't. Busy weekend planned probably won't accomplish much.

[Nathan289]

Went to a swap meet today.

Didnt find any parts I could use. Barely found falcon parts.

Did find a very clean 63 washington license plate. So I at least scored something. The wagon now has a correct year of make license plate and it only cost me $15.

I'll post pictures after I wash the dirt off.

[redfalken]

That's a nice price for the plate. I'm amazed at the prices they're going for and always have my eyes peeled for the elusive bargain!

[Nathan289]

Kenny,

I have a guy that I buy my plates from. $60 restored for a single. $100 for a pair.
I was going to see him this week but I stumbled across the above plate and the price was so right.

He was selling pairs for $20 but the only pair for 63 was in terrible condition.

I washed it with dish soap and soaked it in wd40 then wiped it clean and dry.

Looks pretty good if you ask me.

[EdsFunny]

Tag says 170 engine... unless I can't rebuild it, it will have that. If I have to replace it, it will be replaced with a 200.

I'm getting ready to take the '62 apart due to inoperable frame rot, and it has a solid engine and three-speed. Let me know - I may be able to haul it over the next time I come over to see Phil.

[Nathan289]

I think I can save the engine but tell me more about your set up.

[EdsFunny]

I'll be back in-country on the 20th, and will send you some pictures.

[Nathan289]

Engine is out and on a stand.


Roger,

I have a small list of parts needs. Let me know when you are ready for it.


Found a replacement fender.. not a squire fender but its better than the one on the car. Only problem is the bullet hole. :NERVOUS:

[redfalken]

.... Only problem is the bullet hole. :NERVOUS:

I'd paint around that. Good conversation starter!

[Nathan289]

Kenny,

I haven't thought of that.

I was thinking I could cut it out. Graft in a patch from the old fender. I have to drill hole for squire trim anyway. This bullet hole is in the middle and will be under the wood grain sticker.

Ive discovered i need a clutch set. A flywheel turned. The transmission is so greasey and the car had to be parked on a farm because its a furry transmission:WHATTHE:

The wagon is missing the belly bar. Did 63 have belly bars?

Plus so much more

[Luva65wagon]

Roger, I have a small list of parts needs. Let me know when you are ready for it.

Nathan, post away. Others may have stuff too.

[Nathan289]

I had a huge list typed up and hit the dang back button.:bicker:

we'll start with outside of car.

63 grill. Not looking for the $1100 nos grill from ebay or the $500 restored grill either. Just a clean driver with no bends, breaks.

Squire trim. Passenger side upper front door, passenger side fender.
Thought I had a parts car lined up that had the trim, but nope won't sell just the parts cars.

63 tail light lenses

Rear bumper

Interior of car

Blue steering wheel that isn't broken in three places..
Horn ring. I may have found one.. wish I kept the spare that I had.
Dash pad
Blue arm rests.. can't believe a super deluxe would have the base model arm rests in it. Mine appear to have been lunch for an animal.
Glove box latch catch
Console latch catch
Console liner

Drivers toe board
Passenger pan

Under hood items.

Clutch and flywheel.
Possibly the transmission mines furry:ROTFLMAO:

heater core, unknown

I'm sure I'm forgetting something but I've only had one cup of coffee this morning.

[doghows]

Nathan have you called Steve Averre yet? I'll be the has a bunch of your list. I know he has a grill.

[Nathan289]

Steve

I have not. My concern is committing to purchase parts without seeing the condition.
I know the fine folks here are computer Savoy and able to post pictures of parts.

I'll have to get off my duff and call

[Nathan289]

Interior part I forgot.
spare tire cover.. yes I know macs sells them new.

I also need either a set of 14" steel wheels or another 13" for the spare tire.

Hub caps. . Looking for the deluxe covers pictured earlier in thread.

[doghows]

Nathan I have steel wheels here. You need 4 lug right. I'll double check but I think I have a set of five freshly powder coated black with newer tires on them. I'll get some pics today for you.
As far as Steve he will give you a money back guarantee if you are not happy with the parts. He did that for me with the trim I bought sight unseen. But I understand with you being so far.
Maybe if he had a bunch of stuff you want I can make a drive down to double check the quality and at least get them up this far..

[Nathan289]

Steve,

4 lug is correct. With 185\80r13 being difficult to find upgrading to 14" might be a way to go.

But I'll take what ever I can find. Maxxis tire offers a tire in my size still.

I'd love to make a trip to Longview and the west side buying up falcon parts.

[doghows]

195x75x14's black powdered wheels great shape. Spare is 185 and brand new. Let me know

[Nathan289]

Steve,

Do you know the date codes on the tires?

How much would you want for them?

[doghows]

I can look, they came off my friends mustang and I believe he put those tires on about a year ago.
As far as $ what ever your budget allows. I powder coated them a year or so ago and my friend just put custom wheel and tires on his mustang, he told me to keep these and sell them or whatever to put towards his powder coating bill. In other words you can't insult me, so whatever. :rocker:

[Nathan289]

Steve,

If you can get me the date codes off the tires along with the brand & i'll make you an offer.
as of right now my budget is nill but i'll attempt to make you a fair offer once I get a little more info.

[doghows]

Crap just walked in from the shop. The date code looks to be from 2002. Brand??? Next trip.

[Nathan289]

Sorry,

2002? Are the tires drivers or rollers that hold air?

Thanks
Steve

[doghows]

Drivers all the way. Like I said we just took them off my buddies mustang and he's been driving it all over. The spare has never touched the road.

[Luva65wagon]

I may have the following:

- 63 grille - but it isn't pretty, which is why I have a 62 grille on my Ranchero.

- tail light lenses - which I assume are just red with no back up. I have not seen them in my swap meet search, but I may have zoned right over them. Will look again tomorrow. I know I used to have two of them, but they may have gone last year to the swap. Not expensive repopped either. http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/1963-TAIL-LIGHT-LENSES-PLAIN-147p453.htm

- I put two horn rings in the swap stuff, so I'll pull the best of the two out before it's gone.

- glove box latch - I think I have 2 of these, but they are cheap plastic parts from factory. These are repopped as well. http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/1960-1963-GLOVE-BOX-CONSOLE-LATCHES-76p327.htm

- low mileage clutch assy. Also a few flywheels, one of which is as fresh as the clutch (as far as grind is concerned).

- the 2.77 transmission says it was rebuilt in 2006, but have not opened it. Don't know how furry it is. :confused: I'll try and look at it this week sometime, because if don't want it, it's going to the swap.

[Nathan289]

Roger.

Thanks for looking.

I gave a 63 grill but it is very ugly too. I'll pass if yours is too.

Id be interested in the clutch parts and trans.

If you have a tail light lenses id take it. If not I'll order reproductions
I was hoping for nice used with fomoco stamps on them.

Thanks for the help

Nathan

[Luva65wagon]

Nathan - I will look specifically for the lenses tonight as well as crack the lid on the transmission to see what it looks like in there. It spins freely, but anyone can write on it "Rebuilt on X-date." I've often found in necessary to pull this sort of thing completely apart just to be sure. I hate installing and then find out a half-hour inspection could have saved me grief.

Do you want me to grab the bestest horn ring and a glove-box catch? I even have a couple glove-box doors with buttons (no locking style). I can give you one of those if you need it.

Of the parts I have going to the free bins at the swap I have a lot of door parts (latches, window bits), a few bumper brackets (I think a complete rear set of bumper brackets and one front side (not sure which side). Who knows what else. What doesn't sell/get taken by members or swap attendees - will get scrapped. I am no longer storing it all. It makes me sad to do this, but it's just too much stuff. :(

[doghows]

Do like I did, get more room. :WHATTHE:

[Luva65wagon]

I do know someone with a nice big 3-bay garage, with loft, on 5 acres....

:BEER:

[Nathan289]

Roger,

I'll take the clutch set and matched flywheel.
if the trans isn't too much $$$ I'll take it as a spare. Mine is unknown.

I'll take the lenses if you find them. If not dont sweat it. Maybe as you unload for the swap meet.

I'll take the nicest horn ring.

If you see a cigarette lighter with a white knob I'll take it too.

I'll take two glove box catches plus one latch. Dont need a whole door..

If you have any wagon specific parts I'll take them.. dont want them scrapped.

Dang I wish I lived closer.

[Luva65wagon]

OK on the clutch and tranny. Never got to the tranny tonight, but will before you get it.

Can't find lenses, so I may have sold those last year - knowing I'd never use them. I have a NOS set of buckets and lenses with back-up lights but those go on my Ranchero some day. They don't work on wagons anyway, because of the spare tire.

Got all the rest of the list, and as far as wagon parts - most are tailgate hinges and latch bits. I'll save them for you if you want, but they are rarely needed as replacements.

[Nathan289]

Roger.

Thank you mucho gracias.


I'll pass on the tailgate stuff.

Thanks for looking for the lenses. I'll order reproductions.

I discovered that the right front wheel is locked up.. there maybe others too.

Looks like I'm going to get into the brakes sooner than I planned.


Need to have the ability to roll the car.


Looks like Gene will be able to get the parts half way here..
I can get them the other half.

So if everyone can get the parts to Gene... i'll send payment.

Thanks again guys..

Nathan

[Luva65wagon]

I do have all the 9" brake parts (with bearings, spindles, shoes, new-ish wheel cylinders, drums, backing plates) from when I upgraded my wagon to Scarebird front discs and swapped the 8" rear end. This stuff was all very low mileage bits. You are welcome to all of this. I never got that far back into the shed in time for the swap, but can get it out in time for Gene's trip. Also have all new springs and such in-box - included.

[Nathan289]

Roger,

I just might take those.

Let me know on cost..

[Luva65wagon]

Any of these 9" brake parts you can simply have. I have nothing with them now.

As for what it will cost you... Gene is the one that might decide to charge you! :ROTFLMAO:

[Luva65wagon]

Now that I think about it... I may have tailgate parts in the shed too. I think I have a rear regulator and maybe a set of inner latch pulls. One of these days (soon) I got to go out there and spring-clean too.

Whatever I send... you've got to keep. You have more space in Spokane. ;)

[doghows]

Do I need to try and get the wheels and tires over there too? Gene is your trip before or after the picnic show?

[Luva65wagon]

Steve - if you were to say... have some powder coating stuff done and ready to be picked up... I'd make the drive over and get that stuff and these wheels for Nathan. Maybe on Sunday since we don't keep the swap space open on Sundays anyway. I think Gene said he was heading over memorial weekend.

[doghows]

Ok I'll let you know if I get any of that done. Kinda put it on the back burner for now. Got three coast guard boats to do. Big$$$$$$.

[Luva65wagon]

Understood. It would be the only way I could justify the cost to drive over at the moment. Unless that is I happened to also be bringing over some.... Krispe Kreme's!!!!!

[SmithKid]

I be going E on the 21st. Also making lotsa other trips through the summer.

[Nathan289]

I got the brakes all torn apart today.
the right front was the only locked up brake.

The front shoes had been replaced once before and the wheel cylinders appear to have been rebuilt one time in its past.

The wheel cylinders were Bendix the fronts had wagner boots and cups leading me to believe yhe rebuild.

The rear drums have never been removed. They still had the clips holding the drums on.

Hardware was the original style. Funky hold springs and square clips.

Front wheel bearings are timken niners and Bowers outers, the wheel seals are fomoco.

I'll post a picture of the clips holding the rear drums on later.

Nathan

[Luva65wagon]

I'm a liar. I have apparently used those brakes on a certain Comet and spaced that fact out. I'm sending some stuff though.

I also spaced out on where I sat those lighters and the glove box catches down at. My garage was a whirlwind prepping for the swap meet and I whirled them into oblivion. I will find them in the exact spot I placed them, but it may not be before Gene hauls all the other goodies eastward. When I do, I'll mail them.

I drove to Sequim and picked up the wheels and tires from Steve for Gene to haul over with my bit of the haul.

I also found those two lenses, which are FoMoCo - but are not that good. They are going over to you. Do with them what you will.

[Nathan289]

Roger
no worries about the brakes, I can buy the parts new. The wheel cylinders were toast and I'mnot going to rebuild them.

My tail light lense has a hole in it. So if yours are hole free its better than mine.

I understand not being able to find the smalls. No worries.

I understand from steve that I owe you a kings ransom..
you want me to pay gene or mail you the ransom?

Thanks for the help
Nathan

[SmithKid]

How in the world are you gonna mail that Sprint to him? :confused: It won't fit in the back of my truck!

[doghows]

Hey I never heard anything about a sprint. Roger you pullin a fast one??:ROTFLMAO::ROTFLMAO:

[Luva65wagon]

Kings ransom? I think if you give Gene mine and Steve's, which is now mine (since I paid Steve) - if I don't get it from Gene I will just go take his wheel centers off and hold those ransom. But now that I think about it, that might be welcomed.

[SmithKid]

Delivery completed and I have an envelope for Roger. But I don't think the Sprint is in the envelope.

[Luva65wagon]

Oh boy... now just gotta figure out how to pay the ransom. You just drive safe there Gene.

[Nathan289]

I made it home around 11pm.
Stopped at the grand coulee damn. Ate dinner at Fusions café in electric city.
Great food, but expensive... oh well

My 2013 f150 4wd 5.0l extended cab truck averaged 21.9 mpg.. I'm impressed.

Wheels look great.. even take the falcon dog dish hubcaps.
Tires are 12 years old and are starting to dry rot in the tread area. They hold air and I'm ok with that.

The spare tire is brand spanking new.. 2 years old. I do wonder why its a different size than the other four tires? It will work perfectly as the spare in the wagon.

Any ideas what the red shocks are off of? I didn't notice till I got home but they aren't falcon shocks.

Thanks a bunch guys. The parts you sent will help tremendously.

It was a fun trip and I got to see some little towns and country I haven't seen before.

Nathan

[Luva65wagon]

They're not Falcon shocks? I never looked that close at them, what is different? Not sure why I'd have had them, unless they happened to appear at the swap meet in some years past. Sorry about that... But hey, they were free! :D

Still have not found that bag with the other bits, but I'm still looking. Will PM you for an address when I have my hands on them.

[Nathan289]

Roger,

I'm not complaining just wondering what they are for. I'm thinking f150.
They have the stud mounting like the falcon front or rear shocks, but the bottom mount is and eyelet. Mounts on a stud like most truck shocks.

The f150 front shocks were this way iirc. I know you were working on a 70s f150 work truck.. maybe from that?

No worries on the smalls.. the car isn't going to be done over night, though I wish it was.

I'm stalled on money right now anyways, so I'll be doing cleaning and painting until I build up some reserves.

Steve,
Do you have a red powder coat that matches ford engine red?
Does anyone know if the oil pan was painted too?

Nathan

[doghows]

Yup just did all of Rogers wagon stuff I believe but I guess I did the flarechero stuff too. But yes I do.

[Nathan289]

Steve,
I might be sending you some tin, once I get them sandblasted..
I need to set up my parts washer still and get solvent for it.

I'm thinking of buying a sand blast cabinet.. cheapo harbor freight unit.
They had a huge Easter sale online and I could have bought the $300 unit for 50% off.
Problem is I have no place to put it..

Thanks again for the help guys

[Luva65wagon]

Roger, I'm not complaining...

Good, I'll see if I can find some other stuff I don't know what is and send it over with Gene next time he goes over there. I'll clear out this mess sooner or later. And Spokane has so much more empty space! :banana:

[Luva65wagon]

I'm thinking of buying a sand blast cabinet.. cheapo harbor freight unit.

I did that last year - it is cheapo all right. It blasts fine, but sand comes out of ever nook and cranny. If you get it - and before you put sand in it - dissassemble and silicone all the seams. Or at the very least silicone them from the inside or outside. I stopped using mine because it is making a huge mess - and fine sand is not what you want floating around your garage.

And the method of applying the glass protector from the inside with adhesive tape, that is getting re-engineered too when I get to reworking it. That's darn near impossible to do.

You do get what you pay for - that's for sure. But it's a good start if you do the work to it before using it. Now, for me, I got to clean it all up thoroughly before I can do that - and then may have to have Steve powder coat it. [thumb] (Just kidding Steve).

[Luva65wagon]

Yup just did all of Rogers wagon stuff I believe but I guess I did the flarechero stuff too. But yes I do.

That red is probably too red and needs a little orange in it - but it's vivid! You can see it in my wagon pics.

http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16058&postcount=15

The first two pics here show more orangy - but the third pic is more the red it is. It's really nice though.

http://www.rainierfalcons.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16099&postcount=20

[Nathan289]

Roger,

I opened that transmission today and wow. It looks pretty new inside.

Lately its just been cleaning. Nothing new to report

[Nathan289]

For giggles today I put a battery in it to check the electrics.
lights all work. Horn works. No idea if gauges work.

Power rear window no work.

Got power to dash switch. Didnt check if getting power out of it.
checked lift motor it works.

The tailgate switch has been bypassed. (Switch that tells if gate is down)
Discovered I dont have keys for tailgate.*

I manually put the window all the way down and fixed the tracks and rollers.

I need some window weld to glue window back in the bottom channel.

Need to figure out how to key the back tailgate lock window switch

Need to figure out the goofed up window wiring and why it doesnt work.

There is a circuit breaker in the wiring in the rear of car by the tail gate. Wire goes to it but nothing out of it. Im certain the wiring is boogered up, that's evident from the bypassed switch.

Later

[doghows]

Nathan let me see if I can find the diagram we found for mine. It is a very goofy setup. I do know that circuit breaker resets itself cause I popped mine a few times getting mine all lines up.
That swith on the side needs to be closed for the window to go up, but it should go down even if that switch is bad. I know Roger and Brian played around with mine quite a bit maybe they have a copy of that wiring.
Also I think in my spare parts I kept one or two of those tailgate window switches. I'll check tonight and see. That way if you need one you won't have to search too far. :BEER:

[Nathan289]

Attached is a photo of my switch.
I'm fixing the wiring and testing it.

Also attached is a picture of the new spare tire an wheel in the compartment.
I'll post a picture of the circuit breaker attached to nothing after my phone charges.

[Luva65wagon]

I found the wiring online and I think the "big book of wiring" I found at a garage sale has this schematic too. Brian also posted it in a thread - I think Steve's big one. It is a pretty wacky setup, but made sense after staring a while at it. Can't tell you now exactly why. I do know, for testing, you can bypass that limit switch.

Also, these wagon hatch parts still pop up on ebay once in a while. I bought a NOS limit switch a few months ago (was NOT cheap @ $80 plus shipping!), because I'm slowly collecting all the bits to convert my wagon... someday, maybe. I just like the handle outside too much and would need to do something similar to what I rigged up to pop the doors on Gene's car - using micro switches and rigging the outside handle to activate these with 1/4-turn movements, or something. Happening Real Soon Now. Or I may sell it all and leave well enough alone. IDK. I have it all now to do... less the motivation to do another WIAT project.

Also, I did rebuild Steve's limit switch while we were in Sequim mucking with it that day. The biggest issue with these is when the double-D shaft elongates the hole in the lever and everything gets all sloppy. Weld or peen as needed. Just be careful if you weld on it. Steve's arm was also bent a lot, which required increasing the adjustment slots to get more rotation out of it. Internally, it's simple. Clean the contacts and regrease it - if it's not 100% toast.

[Luva65wagon]

Roger, I opened that transmission today and wow. It looks pretty new inside.

Missed this...

You mean I actually had someone treat me fairly and tell me the truth for a change? Wow...

Really glad to hear it worked out for you that way, Nathan. I'm also sad I didn't sell it for $300... I could'a really used that money to make up for some losses I've taken recently on some "other" things I bought and did. :bicker:

:doh: :ROTFLMAO::doh:

[Nathan289]

Roger..

I got the power window working. I fixed the switch and tested it.
I checked the circuit breaker in the ground and it was good. I put everything back together and it worked. So hey ill take it.[thumb]

All electrical seems to be working. I cant check the switch in the tailgate as I have no key.

I put the window back I the bottom channel.

[Jeff W]

I need some window weld to glue window back in the bottom channel.


You probably know that bottom rubber is not your standard window tape. It has a rubber lip that helps seal ( poorly ) when it rolls into the up position.

[Nathan289]

I have the rubber seal with the lip that seals the window to the tailgate shell.
there was still some kind of sealent between the channel and the rubber. I scraped it out of the channel.

Im stoked that the window motor and everything else works.

I'm disappointed that I dont have a key for the tailgate.

Im even more disappointed that I haven't won the lotto yet.

[jeff0547]

I heard that the key cylinder is the same as the trunk latch in a sedan. If you have a spare, give it a try. Cant find the article I read about it.
Can't help you with the lottery....:(

I found it... http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/60s-ford-falcon-wagon-tailgate-treasure-restored/


I'm disappointed that I dont have a key for the tailgate.

Im even more disappointed that I haven't won the lotto yet.[/QUOTE]

[Nathan289]

I'll have to look and see if I have a spare trunk lock cylinder.

I'm certain I have a lock cylinder and everything else from a 62/63 not sure if it has a key though.

The crappy thing is to get the lock out I'll have remove the glass and window motor and regulator to remove the whole housing.

I dislike messing with the tailgate window..

I have a 64 fairlane wagon.. guess what the first fix was on that? The power window. A previous owner to the motor and regulator apart. Its a pia to put make together correctly.

I'm hoping my lock guy is still alive, he should be able to key it in the car.

[jeff0547]

I'm hoping my lock guy is still alive, he should be able to key it in the car.

Also, if your glove compartment is keyed, it should be the same key. May be a shortcut. Good luck.

[Nathan289]

Nope on the glove box
nope on console having a lock either.

I only got two keys for the car, both work the ignition.

Oh well

[Luva65wagon]

Lets say I dont want to pay $270 for the set on ebay.

I want driver condition. No dents but a little scratched is ok.

But I'll take nos for $5..

Nathan. Sitting here at my brother-in-laws house. In the garage I look up on the wall and here hangs one of these caps. Only one. He wants $50 with shipping. He's been planning to eBay.

[Jeff W]

If it is the same as what's on my wagon, they are 13". I don't think they will mount up if Nathan is using the 14" he got from Steve. I don't think they came in 14"

[Nathan289]

If it is the same as what's on my wagon, they are 13". I don't think they will mount up if Nathan is using the 14" he got from Steve. I don't think they came in 14"

ditto what Jeff said..

But yes that was the wheel cover I wanted.

The wife is looking at a set of 67 Fairlane caps..

I'm thinking just a set of wire spokes with the spinners.. the 14 versions of the 13s

[Nathan289]

Any ideas on the best way to fix the seat back?

[Luva65wagon]

Are these two different sides? What do you see as you move up that piece?

Can you post a complete picture of the seat back with these areas highlighted somehow? From the pics it almost looks as though the parts got bent outward, but then straightened and they cracked doing that.

Welding is the first thought in my head, but need to see the big picture.

[Nathan289]

Will do.

It the seat back to seat bottom arms.

Both sides are cracked. One side is bent really bad too.

I'm attempting to weld them.

My welding skill suck. I'm using a cheap harbor freight mig welder and some .030 wire

[Nathan289]

Well after some welding.. a small garage fire and a water break:ROTFLMAO:

I welded the cracks back up bent, pulled, & hammered the arms back parallel I think..
Test fitted the back to the bottom and it lines up and works.

I'm not sure how strong my welds are. I discovered if I turn up the voltage up the welds look a lot better.

Now I'm going to grind the welds down.. and keep an eye out for another bucket seat just incase.

There was a 60s mustang seat on craigslist a month ago. $20
I should have snatched it up.

Nathan

[Luva65wagon]

Ah... I doubt they were ever anything but straight from the back all the way to the end. Would have to see some unmolested examples to be sure. For some reason it almost appears someone grabbed each of these and bent them totally outward away from each other, then back in. Is it the same with the other seat you have? If not, it may offer you a view as to what it should look like and measure as.

[Nathan289]

The s curve is supposed to be there. Its just been twisted and pushed even further out.

I dont think its a 100 % correct but its at least function able.

[Nathan289]

Well the little 170 is at the engine builders.. I have to buy pistons because of the cylinder ridge and 4 of 6 had frozen wrist pins.

The block is getting decked .010" maybe .020" if needed.
Going .030" over on bore..
Balanced rotating assembly

252h comp cam..

head is getting .020" to .030" depending if it needs more than 20.
Hardened exhaust seats. 3 angle valve job with back cut valves.
If any valve need replacing then I'm installing larger intake and exhaust.

Using a steel shim head gasket like ford. Should see a modest increase in compression.


I have a big box of goodies being delivered from rock auto this week. To go along with the box goodies that are sitting in the garage already..

Plans are to paint engine bay as soon as I can roll the car outside to power wash the engine bay..

My goal is to have this car back on the road by the end of the month.
It won't look pretty, but it will be under its own power.

Pictures to come as soon as I get parts to get working.

In the mean time I'm playing with a f100..

[Nathan289]

Progress pictures..

[Nathan289]

Oh..

Obviously the car isnt moving under its own power and its now August.

My engine guy is super busy , but I have it assembled.

I have the engine bay painted..

The brakes are all replaced and the car rolls.

Fingers crossed but im hoping to have it running by this weekend.

If not this weekend then in two weeks.

[dhbfaster]

Nathan, Looking good. Any recomendations on the Engine Guy?
I'm looking to have my little 144 totally overhauled or remanufactured.

[Nathan289]

Well my engine guy knows ford sixes.
He's built three for me plus a v8

My guy is super busy right now. If you aren't in a hurry he's great.

Dennis @ American engine

Only downside is he's on the right side of the state in spokane, wa

Pistons will be the expensive part if you need them.

There is a guy on ebay that sells a complete engine kit for $500.

Best prices I found anywhere. My engine guy matched the prices but I wouldn't expect him to do that for everyone

[Luva65wagon]

Gosh, I just uncovered that bag of parts to send you for the umpteenth time. Maybe this week they'll go out and not get buried again.

Don - not sure you'll want to haul your motor to Spokane, but I'll put a word out for Action Machine at 175th and Aurora. Have been dealing with them for 35 years and Rob has been there for most, if not the entire time. Good clean shop with smart guys.

[dhbfaster]

I noticed on the Action Machine website, they go through S&J Engines for total remanufacture. (Which is also in Spokane.) I had them quote a while back and they seemed competitive and they will pick up & deliver the engine pretty cheap. The mustang shop also said they do quite a few engines every year with them. ( I may have the car painted on that side of the state anyway. Seems like the way to go- just get it all done at once. Anyway...I need to finish getting the suspension all put back on first...but planning to get the engine out this fall. As always...thanks for the advice and places to check out.

[Nathan289]

Ive heard good things and bad things about s&j engines.

Most of the time the complaints are you dont get the same engine back that you dropped off.
so you order a 144 ship it over they send a 144 that they already had. They remanufactured it and ship it. It shortens down time kinda..
just inspect what you get back, thoroughly.

My guy rebuilds what you give him, unless you specify different.
he will work with you to keep cost down..

In my case I only replace bad parts with new when required. Like valves. If theres one bad it gets replaced instead of all of them.
unless I'm wanting all new valves then I ask for them. But 12 valves @ $9 each adds up quick.

This engine I just had built got new pistons 4:6 had frozen wrist pins and the cylinders had massive rige. Pistons for these engines $220 a set.
I replaced the oil pump, timing set, camshaft and lifters new along with gaskets, rings, bearings.

The cylinder head received one new valve everything else was reused.

I like to assemble my engines so I drop of the engine disassembled and pick it up the same way.
saves money if you assemble it yourself.

I spent $1000 on this engine. Ive also spent $1200 on another 170
The cheapest was $800 for the 170 & the 260.

[dhbfaster]

Really appreciate the info Nathan. I did talk to S&J about getting my same engine block back- and they said no problem they can do that. Without looking at my notes...I want to say including the work, parts (I think..Including pistons which they said were harder to find for the 144), round trip transport to Spokane, and tax...about $1825. I think for just labor & to put it through their process it was about $1000-1100. I prep it onto a pallet with nothing bolted onto the outside so to speak and that's how I get it back. I get it back in about a week. Seemed like a lot, but take out the transportation, and it's about the same price as a rebuild place in Portland (but they don't paint them), about the same as the performance place in Federal Way, but they need a couple months. I'm already way over budget-but I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm just going to have to work a few more months before I can retire...(at this point it's all irrational anyway.) I can bolt the easy stuff back on myself, and I understand the concept of air/fuel/spark pretty well, but I'd rather have someone that really knows these engines put all the important stuff back together for me (and I don't want to spend a year figuring it all out). I don't want to waste money on parts either, but if there's any question I'd rather replace it. I want it to run like a top for another 50 years...1500 miles a year.

[Nathan289]

144 & 170 pistons are the same and readily available.

Call Dennis @ American engine
509 487 3332

He can take a fully assembled engine rebuild it and send it back fully assembled.

Getting it shipped here would be the difficult part.

[Nathan289]

Removed the original transmission today. What a big ball of dirt. I think there's a transmission in there somewhere.

Cleaned up the part number area to find the part number stamped upside down? The other transmission I bought from Roger has the part numbers that are readable while standing under the car.
This transmission would only be readable if one were to stand on there head:confused:

maybe its ubber rare and worth a million dollars..

Getting closer...

[pbrown]

This transmission would only be readable if one were to stand on there head:confused:


Maybe it was installed upside down. :D

[Nathan289]

Pictures of engine bay.

Copper master cylinder lid

Upside down part number..

[dhbfaster]

If that is cleaned up, it looks about like mine did. I'll have to go check the number now...

[dhbfaster]

Nathan, how did you get the air intake manifold (etc) to look so beautiful back in that pic 0622? Is that new? Mine is a nice rusty brown.

[Nathan289]

Don,

I havent cleaned the trans yet. Just scraped the crap off the side to read the numbers.
I have another transmission from Roger, that is rebuilt or seems to be. I was thinking of using it. Though the inside of my transmission looks good. It spins fine too.

The head looks like it does because my engine guy cleans the block and head before rebuilding.
the head is painted cast iron color and the block is gloss black. Neither are correct colors, but it looks good and I dont feel like repainting them.

Ive been told the early blocks arent painted or I've been told they were painted ford low gloss black. So not sure. My engine was so dirty I couldn't see signs of any paint.


The tin was hot tanked too which removed all the old paint. I then sanded the surface rust. Primed and painted.

I still have the exhaust manifold to paint but I need to order a good manifold paint. Preferably in cast iron color.

[Luva65wagon]

Nathan - you are gonna do a dual M/C - even if you do have a pretty copper-looking M/C cover now? Sort of mandatory with the kiddies, I'd say.

Also, very odd tranny number. At the very least you could gut it and put the parts from the one I sent over and keep the oddity alive. My guess is the parts would interchange just fine.

Eastwood makes a very good brush on exhaust paint. Lasts the longest of all I've used. But all of them are good for the initial pictures, but none - except a good performance coating - last.

(Reminder... send Nathan the parts...)

[redfalken]

Eastwood makes a very good brush on exhaust paint. Lasts the longest of all I've used. But all of them are good for the initial pictures, but none - except a good performance coating - last.

I've used a lot of different coatings over the years and have been pretty meticulous about sandblasting, cleaning, and applying the paints but they never seem to last. After using POR-15 for exhausts on my new headers and watching it rust after the first few months, I saved up my $$ and went for the ceramic coating done by Performance Coatings in Auburn. I chose their Satin Tungsten Gray and it has a nice cast iron look.

Hopefully this will hold up and look good for at least a decade or more!! I'm tired of cleaning and painting...

[Nathan289]

Kenny

I found sand blasting didn't help.

What I've had good luck with is soaking a bunch of rags with brake cleaner. Wrap the manifold in the rags and let it soak.
I then wire wheel it and soak it again.
Probably one hell of a fire hazard.

Then hang it and very light coat of vht manifold paint. Let it dry. Then bake in oven when wife is not home.
Let it cool and apply second coat. Has to be light coats. Heavy coats bubble and flake off.

I usually coat, bake, repeat about three times till the appearance looks good.

Worked well on the last manifold didn't bubble and flake off. Not sure how well it held up though.

[Nathan289]

Progress update pictures.

[redfalken]

Looking good! What are the four holes in the air cleaner for?

[Nathan289]

Kenny

No clue.. but I'd love to know.

I think there is supposed to be baffle or a pre filter in the air cleaner. At least that's the Impression I get from the shop manual when reading the pcv section in the 63 supplement.

But I dont know because all I have is the holes.

[Nathan289]

She's Alive!!!

Primed the oil system.

Primed the fuel..

She fired up on the third try.

I have it running and after 20 minutes of break in, I timed her, wow was I way off on her timing. Had to advance the timing like 25*.

Re torqued the head gasket.
Checking valve lash next.

[Nathan289]

She's been driving.

I still have bugs to work out.

Steering wheel is 90* off.to the right to drive straight..

Biggest problem is I have a engine knock. I thought it was detonation. Might still be but its at idle and goes away if I increase rpms..

I think it goes away if I retard the timing below specs.

But I have put 10 to 15 miles on her. She runs and drives great. Temp gauge reads 1/2. Gas gauge works. Put 5 gallons in it and it reads 1/4 tank.

The wife is shopping for a 57-66 f100.. short box. Step side
I'm doomed.

[ew1usnr]

Mayble is back on the road! She's rolling again! Yaaaaaaaaayyy!!!! [yay]

Congratulations, Nathan! That is terrific!

[dhbfaster]

Nice...that's got to feel good Nathan...I feel like I should be hitting a like button.:D:BEER:

[Luva65wagon]

That thing's hideous!

:ROTFLMAO:

Just kidding. But I don't envy your finding all that Squire trim, which looks pretty perished. Anytime I've seen a piece here, and a piece there, they want your first-born for it.

But it must feel good to get it this far! [thumb] I would be concerned by the knock though. Hopefully it is timing.

[Jeff W]

Why are you spending all the efforts and money on a station wagon? They just are not that cool.

No... wait, they are. Lookin' great!

[Nathan289]

There's a website on how to restore the trim, which I'll be doing maybe this winter.
I have all the trim, but I have a few broken pieces. I'll attempt to locate what I can. There was a set minus fenders on ebay for $300.. problem is I dont need the whole car and I could use one fender.

I have a feeling I'll be dropping the oil pan and checking rod bearings.. I got lazy and didnt check it when I assembled it. I should have.

The thing is ugly.. I got new seat foam for the buckets. Now I need to get seat material. If only falcon interiors wasn't so expensive.

Is it possible for wrist pins to knock? I had 4 frozen wrist pins and maybe my engine guy didnt resize them correctly?

You wouldn't think it would be timing knock at idle with timing set at 10* but maybe.. im taking today off from working on it.

[Luva65wagon]

One trick you can try is to pull a plug wire at a time (carefully) while it is knocking. If you pull a plug and the knock ceases, then focus on that cylinder... somewhere in the bowels of the motor. If pulling any plug causes it to cease, hire an exorcist. If pulling a plug never causes it to stop knocking, I'd consider more a main, or some other part of the motor that is working hard no matter what's happening within the ignition/spark/combustion side of things.

Sounds like you may not have plastigauged the bearings prior to assembly, but that's the only real way of knowing the machinist ground the crank correctly and that the bearings are all correct (regardless of how they are marked). I'll assume you torqued everything with a good torque wrench, and as such not mention this as a possibility. :D

Not sure if you disassembled/cleaned/inspected the rocker arms on this, but these are notorious for wearing the shaft badly and depending on how bad could produce an RPM-based noise.

Are you running a good oil pressure gauge or the light on the dash? Maybe you are suffering from low RPM oil pressure issues?

I'm sure you'll track it down, but I don't suspect it's the wrist-pins. You had to bore this motor out and any machinist would have addressed the connecting rods long before they installed the pistons - including sizing the rod journals and the wrist pin holes. If they didn't... :confused: :NERVOUS:

[Nathan289]

Ive done the cylinder drop test 3 times.
The knock persists.

So it either mains or rocker shaft.

I attempted to take the shaft apart and failed. It seemed like a lot of force required to remove the rockers. So I just cleaned out the oil holes.

I have the oil light no pressure gauge installed. Maybe I should do that.

You're correct I skipped the plasti gauge and its biting me in the ***. This is the 3rd six my guy built for me.

Anyway I look at it. Only piece of mind I'll have his to drop the pan. It will be messy but it has to be done.

I've already eliminated the fuel pump as a possible cause.

I cant think of anything in the distributor making noise.
It sounds low in the block so I doubt rocker but maybe.

I'll start with a oil pressure test as if the idle is 1000 rpms I have no knock at any timing.

[Nathan289]

Oil pressure at idle is 48 psi
Idle is 650 psi..

Im thinking its in the rocker shaft.

I also have an occasional miss.

Anyone have an adjustable rocker shaft that I can buy?

[Luva65wagon]

Idle is 650 PSI! :WHATTHE:

I think I have the rocker set from my Ranchero. I hope I didn't use that on someone else's motor, but I might have. I'll look around as soon as I can. Probably tomorrow morning, earliest.

[Nathan289]

Lol yea.. rpms.. not psi

I have 48 psi @ 650 rpms and 54 psi @ 1700 rpms.

my knock is more of a heavy rattle..

I took apart my rocker shaft.

I found it is bowed in the middle. Set against my straight edge I have a 1/4" bow in the middle.



The middle of the shaft where the bow is is worn really bad from the rockers. I measured the groove in the shaft with a feeler gauge and measures .012".

I'm kicking my self wishing I didnt give my spare away. Except is wasnt a spare at the time, it was a un need. Doh.

So this is an apb all points bulletin for a gently used rocker arm assembly. Mechanical lifter set up.

Roger hope you can locate yours..

Thank,
Nathan

[pbrown]

The shaft is available new if the rest is still good.

http://www.classicinlines.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CSC-200-RAS

[Nathan289]

I'll have to do some research and see if there are any specs on rockers. I know the shaft is bad.

I found an nos shaft in Oregon.

I have to see I need the whole kit & kaboodle.

[Nathan289]

The shop manual contains the specs for the rocker arm shaft. .781
Mines toast..
The shop manual also provides specs for the bore diameter of the rockers. .783
Haven't measured those yet.

Normal clearance is .002-.004 though discard is .006.

So ill get those rockers measured and go from there.

[Nathan289]

My parts measured in at;
.769 for the rocker shaft, well beyond the wear limit. Plus it has a bend in it.

Rockers measured anywhere from .784 to .787.
Some are worn but all are within limits. Majority were .786

Still on the fence about what to do...

[Nathan289]

Roger,
The shaft you sent me. Is the first shaft I've ever seen that had copper bushings in every rocker.. very odd. Even odder is they were out of specs.

I don't get it. I got an assembly from PhilC next. It was looking awesome until I got to cylinder 3 exhaust rocker and it scored the shaft and rocker really bad. The shaft was perfect except for 2 cylinders.. how do two cylinders wear, but everything else is good?

So I bought the nos fomoco shaft off ebay from a guy in coos bay, OR. For $30.

Using the best 12 rockers I built myself an assembly. Bolted to the car, adjusted valves, did a compression test, fired it up and my knock or noise was still there.

The wife looks up the stock spark plug number, cross-references it to an autolite plug and tells me I have a colder plug in there.. I was running a autolite 45. She says try a 46 like its supposed to have.

Guess what? A change of plugs later and the noise appears to be gone..

Hmm..

[ew1usnr]

The wife looks up the stock spark plug number, cross-references it to an autolite plug and tells me I have a colder plug in there.. I was running a autolite 45. She says try a 46 like its supposed to have.

Guess what? A change of plugs later and the noise appears to be gone..
Hmm..

I really am impressed that your wife thought to check that you had correct spark plugs.

It is surprising that a colder plug would cause a knocking sound, but if the noise went away you received a surprise success.

I need to have your wife look at my car and tell me if anything needs to be changed. [BOW]

[Nathan289]

Colder plugs shouldn't make it knock or detonate, so I don't get it.
Maybe something in the engine was hitting the plugs or plug, but I don't see evidence of that.
Maybe the colder plug was fouling at idle causing a miss that was causing a noise?

Only other thought is bad gas, but I didn't change that till after the noise went away.

Right now the wife is shopping for a plasma cutter..

Ebay has some really cheap 3&1 plasma cutter, mig and mms welder all built in one. Probably not a good buy, but its tempting.

[Nathan289]

Noise is back...

I don't know. I went through and retorqued everything I could on the outside of the motor..

I'm thinking possibly the distributor, as the end shaft play is really excessive.
End shaft play is supposed to be leas than .008 mine is .020

When I move the shaft up and down it makes a similar noise as my engine noise.

I'll order a rebuilt distributor and maybe drop the oil pan and check the mains and rods..

Otherwise I don't know.. maybe flywheel bolts next

[Luva65wagon]

Nathan, You can't take a long dowel rod and use it as the listening rod and probe around while the motor is running to zero-in on the approximate location? Is the noise RPM related? High-pitched, low-pitched?

[Nathan289]

Roger,

Noise is rpm related. Only does it at idle and not every time.
Killing cylinders doesn't make it worse nor better. So I can't isolate it to one cylinder.

Raise rpms and it goes away.

I've removed fuel pump and its still there.
I removed valve cover and it doesn't sound as loud. (not that loud to begin with)

Best I've been able to do is narrow it down to the block area between distributor and fuel pump.

Its a real light knocking noise, almost a rattle.. with the distributor out of the car, if I pull up and down on the shaft it makes a similar noise..


I just thought of something.. the car had a newer oil, pan on it.. I wonder if the crank is knocking the oil pump pickup screen.. maybe the old pan got crushed..

I didn't check oil pump to crank clearance, I spun the engine by hand before install and didn't notice anything..

It doesn't explain why it went away with a change of plugs though..


:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

[Luva65wagon]

Using a long dowel (local home center) about 1/2" in diameter held up against the motor in various places, and then the other end pressed against your (closed) ear acts as a stethoscope. I've pinpointed almost exactly where noises emanated from using this method - assuming you can access them without catching a belt or fan blade. I can't imagine it being a crank-induced knock against an oil pump. There is a lot of clearance there, typically.

I assume this has a new timing chain and gears? Chain slap again the timing cover has caused RPM related noises, but only if the chain and gears are old and flapping about.

The distributor gear, with its helical cut gears, will get forced in one direction - and stay there, so I'd also doubt that to be a cause for a noise you could hear. Are you running points/condenser or Pertronix? Wasn't this a new distributor too?

[Nathan289]

New everything.
No distributor. Original


I wonder if its fuel related.
Went away with fresh plugs. Came back after a cold start with choke use.

[Nathan289]

Installed the 58f jet in the carb. Pretty sure it made the noise worse.
Pulled plugs and appears that the autolite 46 plug is too hot.
With the discoloration band near the base of the plug.

Might try a colder plug and see what happens..

Could be a lean condition raising cylinder temps.

Looks like I might want to order some carb jets too..


Not sure if that's the source of my noise though...

Distributor has too much end play when installed.. doubt that's my problem either, but could be.