A circuit breaker?

[ew1usnr]

I tried to start my car and the engine was turning over. Just as it started to catch, everything went dead. Head lights, ignition, instrument panel, everything.

I disconnected the ground on the battery and when I reconnected it, the instrument panel lights (generator & oil pressure) came back on. I turned the ignition and heard a brief sound, and everything went dead. I disconnected and re-connected the ground. Again - turned the ignition and heard a brief sound, and then everything went dead. I disconnected and re-connected the ground. Repeat.

It is like by disconnecting from the battery I am re-setting a circuit breaker somewhere. Is there a circuit breaker in the starter motor? Does this sound like short in the starter motor?

The head lights / dome lights do not come on when the instrument panel re-activates. It is a puzzle to me as to how the light circuit would have failed because of a problem in the ignition starter circuit. Any suggestions?

Signed, Puzzled.

[Jeff W]

These isn't any kind of whole system breaker that would act in the manner you describe. My best guess (since you aready checked the main battery cables and connection while "resetting ") is your battery is shot or dead.

It takes an awful lot of current to turn a starter motor. It's possible the battery has time to regenerate after the draw during the time you are goofing around under the hood.

Let us know.

[Vikingblu]

Puzzled, is the starter solenoid on the inner fender?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGGTaOQkkAk

[ew1usnr]

I connected the battery to a 2-amp charger last night to make sure that it is charged. This car has a 260 V-8. I noticed that the cable that goes to the starter goes down from the starter solenoid and then under the right-side exhaust manifold on its way to the starter. The cable is very close to the exhaust manifold, perhaps only an inch away. I am surprised that the cable has not melted. In the following picture you can see the black starter cable in the center where it goes under the exhaust manifold. Is the is the correct routing?

Starter cable passing close under exhaust manifold:
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Thanks for the solenoid video. I'll follow the testing procedures tonight and see if I am getting a voltage signal to it. I'll also try touching the starter cable to the battery terminal and see if the starter works.

Here is my solenoid:
2956

Here is an internet photo of a solenoid in a award-winning 1963 Falcon. Is that a capacitor on the battery side of the solenoid? What is that for? My solenoid does not have one.

Example solenoid.
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[Jeff W]

That little guy is a circuit breaker for the convertible top motor.

I truly think this is a simple case of a dead battery.

[Vikingblu]

Start by cleaning the cable lugs, nuts and studs common to the solenoid. should all be shiny metal. looks like a lot of old paint and rust and stuff on there.
one at a time of course, but then,, you have pics [thumb]

[ew1usnr]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. They focused my attention on the battery.

I had a volt meter plugged into my cigarette lighter and it was reading 4 volts while I saw 13 volts at the battery terminals. I noticed that the voltage in the car changed as I monkeyed with the negative terminal on the battery. The electrical problem turned out to be a bad negative battery terminal. It was a clamp-on type and the clamp was rusty and the copper cable under the clamp was corroded. I sanded off the cable and attached a new $3.09 clamp and now everything works! The headlights, dome light, and instrument panel, and the engine turns over when turning on the ignition. It is really amazing how the bad terminal caused such an abrupt and complete failure of the entire electrical system. It is also amazing that I was so lucky that the bad battery terminal and overflowing carburetor both happened at almost the same time and in my driveway:)! Either one would have been a real problem if they had happed while on a trip and a hundred miles from my house.

Behold the bad terminal:
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This battery issue caused me to notice that my starter cable passes directly under, and within inches of, the hot exhaust manifold. It turns out that my cable is routed over the motor mount when it should pass under the motor mount. They make a little bracket that attaches to the engine block side of the motor mount and secures the starter cable. It will be a simple matter to re-route the cable and just use a zip tie until I can buy a correct bracket.

Starter cable bracket
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Signed, Happy tonight in Tampa.

[Luva65wagon]

Oh yeah - those terminals are excessively prone to corrosion and failure. Great temporary "get you by" product in a pinch, but require constant maintenance.

The current draw through the starter is immense and every point of resistance between the battery and the terminal of the starter should be eliminated when possible.

There is always going to be some loss of current (flow) within the solenoid simply because it is a switch and switch contacts are only going to be so good. Battery cables though are supposed to be a a zero-ohm, single-point connection (the battery post), not a dual point connection (the battery post and the cable to terminal). These clamp-on terminals are also-zero ohm "when new", but because they are open to the "environment of a lead-acid battery" oxidation and corrosion very quickly occurs.

Corrosion increases the resistance of a connection. And because resistance = heat when current passes through something this quickly ramps up the failure - since heat also speeds oxidation. That's why it may work up to a point and fail seemingly overnight.

Anyway, more information than needed, but there you go.

[ew1usnr]

I unbolted the top end of the starter cable and pulled it out from under the exhaust manifold and passed it up from under the right motor mount. The cable was then a couple of inches too short to reach the solenoid (which is maybe why it had been routed under the exhaust manifold). The cable insulation was crumbling and some has been covered with electrical tape and bare wire was showing in places. Given that the starter cable needs to be replaced and my existing battery cables are questionable, I went for broke and ordered a set of battery and starter cables that are specifically made to fit a 1963 V-8 Falcon.


See:
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