Weber adapter for Ford L6 144/170/200/250

[Luva65wagon]

I know a few of you may want to do this adaptation to your car - going from a stock Autolite carb to a Weber. I've been looking at this for a few weeks and Kenny dropped off his patterns (from when he did it) at the park the other day. The more I look at this cobbled mess; look at the adapters on-line; Kenny's adapter; and mine - I say there has to be an easier way! Well... easier for me anyway.

So I think I am going to try making something like this. It really should not be very hard to make and will reduce the stacking of adapter on adapter. Essentially one plate that will bolt to the log and accept the Weber. Gouging out the aluminium will be the niggly part.

There may be clearance issues too, which I've not foreseen, but we will see.

[Luva65wagon]

I just pulled out a 65 head I had stashed in the shed to discover the adapter pattern you supplied Kenny is for a bigger carb base. So that isn't going to apply here. Also, the angle is much different. The difference won't make too much of a change from what I drew above, other than the recessed Allen-head cap screws will be under the Weber gasket a little more. I think it's going to work pretty good though... if I can work out the machining part of it.

Jeff, were you going to use a big-log head or a small-log head?

I'm seriously thinking it might be good to have this spare head reworked with hardened seats and swap it out too... while I'm at it. :WHATTHE:

[Jeff W]

Jeff, were you going to use a big-log head or a small-log head? :

I hadn't gotten that far along in my thought process yet... I didn't know there was a difference. Clearly, I will closely be watching this thread.

[Luva65wagon]

I got it about half-way done before I had to retire inside. It's coming along pretty nicely. I'll be grinding all the internals with a die-grinder and drill and counter-bore the recessed screw holes. Studs in the corners - and that's it.

Is really a pretty simple adapter. I'll bore a hole for vacuum to the PCV and another on the end for the rod I need to make for the bell-crank. Have maybe 2 hours in it so far.

[Luva65wagon]

It's been a few days since I was able to work on this again, but have it mostly done now. The only thing I have left to do is to measure for and create something to mount the bell-crank swivel. I will have to pull the carb on the car to get that figured out.

Also, there is a stop on the carb that interferes where I have drawn an arrow. Not a lot, so I may be able grind something away. Needed to counter-bore for the Allen screens first to see how much meat I had to work with. Kenny mentioned having a thicker fiber gasket to insulate the carb better, but if I had about a 1/4" or 5mm thick gasket, it would clear this section just fine with no more grinding. Kenny, if you have any information on what it is you used - that would help.

Other than that it's a 3/4" thick adapter. No other bells or whistles. I do need to drill and tap a vacuum port still too, just need to see where best to put it. That's easy.

[redfalken]

You do good work Roger! Do a search on eBay for "PHENOLIC SPACER WEBER" and there's a 5mm one that appears at the top. I got mine from that same seller for $10.25 + $3.50 shipping in Oct 2010. The one up now is $18 +$4.50 shipping. Inflation??

[Luva65wagon]

Thanks Kenny, and thanks Kenny.

I know a lot of cars that use this style carb all had thick base gaskets. I may swing by my local Napa store and see if they can pull anything off the shelf too. But thanks for the heads-up. I'll bring you all your patterns and such back at the meeting. And include my own to the pile for the next guy.

As for making these to sell, I have about 4 hours into it so far. I'm not sure I could make any money off of them, but I made it all using tools I had and a drill-press. Not sure most would want to use their wood-working tools on aluminum, but it is surprisingly similar to working hardwood. The forstner bits look just fine. A couple rounded burr bits in a hand-drill did the rest.

[Luva65wagon]

Doing a quick look I found this gasket, which is the thick mount gasket I've seen used:

http://tinyurl.com/7982tkr

[Luva65wagon]

Stopped by the Oriellys warehouse on 185th and Aurora and picked up the thick gasket, base gasket and stud kit for $14 with tax. I think it's going to work. Will be playing with it as I can to see what it's going to take to do the rest. Doing the air-cleaner mount... ah, shoot. Still gotta do that.

:bicker: :doh:

[Luva65wagon]

Have the adapter done and the carb installed. Didn't spend much time on it this weekend though. Enjoying the sunshine instead. But I decided to order the air-cleaner adapter to see if that will work without cobbling the bottom of the air cleaner and fabbing something like Kenny did.

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=A1000

Next comes finding a low-pressure gauge and installing the fuel pressure regulator as I wait for that adapter to arrive. Then should be ready to fire up.

[doghows]

That looks awesome. Dumb question, is that on the flarechero? Looks like it. I hope it makes it run like a r*#@!ed ape!!!

[Luva65wagon]

Yes - it was the one giving me grief on the drive out to your place last month. I had it off as soon as I got back and figured out what the problem was - and fixed it - and it was running fairly well afterward. It was a 1940-model (not as in the year 1940) Holley carburetor, which I had issues with also when it was on my wagon and driving to Oregon a couple years ago. Just tired of messing with it. I just want something more current and reliable - not 50-years old.

Not sure it's going to make it any more peppy, but it may. Kenny is the only other one I know who has one.

I figure any thing I do with this can transfer over to the wagon once Flarechero gets two more cylinders. [thumb]

[doghows]

Soooo how does it run???:3g:

[Luva65wagon]

Have not started it yet with this. Still needing to mount the fuel pressure regulator and finish my air-cleaner adapter.

The A1000 air cleaner adapter came in yesterday, but it is a little bigger diameter around the mouth of it, so I need to decide how to combat this. I can have our tool maker machine something for me, but I'd like to see if I can find something the average guy can do. Not that the base adapter was easy - it can still be done with basic tools and a hunk of aluminum. The air cleaner is about .100 smaller than the diameter of the adapter mouth. We'll see what I come up with. Wish I had a shrinking machine.

[doghows]

Don't they sell those in conjunction with the stretcher machine??:o

[Luva65wagon]

I do have a hole-cutting tool I may be able to rig up to reduce the top of this thing to the right size. It would leave me with about .050 wall - which isn't much, but probably plenty. Finding center will be the tough part. There is a threaded hole in the center of the adapter I could maybe use as the center to guide this cutter, but not sure how well they spotted that into the center of the opening. Will have to measure it. More fun. [thumb]

[doghows]

So you already have a widening machine!! Just remember how you did it all, because I think there might be a few people looking to do the same on their rigs. Nice work by the way.

[Luva65wagon]

Remember? Remember what? That's what I take pictures for.
"Oh yeah! I did that..."

[Luva65wagon]

Gene came over and motivated me to get this done. It runs! As soon as it got gas it purred. I need to do some timing adjustments, but I like this mod a lot.

[SmithKid]

The purring is great, but how does it run whilst driving? Maybe it roars now? Wasn't that the motivation for the conversion?

[Luva65wagon]

I did take it out on Friday and drove it and that's what prompted the "timing adjustments" comment. It's a different vacuum source from what I was using before, clearly. Need to back off the the timing a couple degrees.

But overall it is pretty different. There is no flat spot I hear about with this setup. Maybe because of my adapter. I do not know how "flat flat is" having never experienced it myself. It seems very peppy. Way more than before.

Unfortunately I didn't have any time to do much with it over the weekend. With other things distracting me at the moment I also wasn't feeling good (allergies kicking my butt) and only managed to wash it and my motorcycle, which I need to prepare to either ride or sell.

All in all, If someone could make this adapter instead of the one-size-fits-all adapters we have available to us, I think it would be a much cleaner install.

[BillP 98201]

When I grow up. I want to be like Roger........... [BOW]
Nice work ......as usual

[Luva65wagon]

When I grow up. I want to be like Roger.

No you don't. :eek:

:)

I adjusted the timing last night and it runs even better yet! I am beside myself.
(Roger ->) :BEER: (< - Roger)

[redfalken]

That's great news! Now you just need to fill in the blanks so we can see what the magical jet sizes are that make it run so well:

Main Primary:
Main Secondary:
Air Jet Primary:
Air Jet Secondary:
Idle Primary:
Idle Secondary:

There's a huge thread on the Ford Six Forum but the sizes are all over the place so I'm always curious to see what others are going with. I'll post mine too but right now they're buried in a pile of papers downstairs. And my butt is buried in the La-Z-Boy...

[Jeff W]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". My brother cut this out on his water jet and did some rough work on the mill. I will still need to detail it up a bit but it's 90% done.

He used 1" stock rather than the 3/4" Roger used. I hope the 1/4" in additional height doesn't cause clearance issues with the hood.

Now to rebuild that 200 and give it a test.

[Luva65wagon]

I am flattered. Looks very good to me! Deja vu-ish.

I don't think the extra 1/4" is gonna matter. I even have the Weber air filter adapter on mine and have plenty of hood clearance.

Did you add a threaded hole for the bell-crank part, or are you gonna do a cable-type accelerator pedal?

[redfalken]

Looks nice!

I have a homemade spacer under my adapter to orient the carb (maybe 3/16 iron stock), a phenolic spacer on top of the adapter that's 5mm thick (6.5mm = 1/4") and I had my Stovebolt adapter machined down about 3/16" on the top and 3/16" on the bottom. I have a Ford under hood light that is 1"+ thick that was rubbing the air cleaner before I had the machining done.

The total from log surface to carb base is 2" BUT I had the machinist who did the head work shave a little off the log surface where the carb mounts. I don't recall how much but probably 1/8" to 3/16".

In other words, I think the 1" stock should fit with plenty of clearance.

[SmithKid]

Beautiful! People with skills like that are so talented it makes me envious.

[Jeff W]

Did you add a threaded hole for the bell-crank part, or are you gonna do a cable-type accelerator pedal?

Going to go with cable set -up like Mr. Kenny. Also the air cleaner adapter like yours. Patrick scared me away from not using it as he once had a loose air cleaner bolt swallowed by his engine.

[Jeff W]

Since I am now rebuilding a newer head, my original adapter made for my older "small log" head will no longer work.

My brother machined a new adapter plate that I picked up last week. The "Large Log" not only has a much larger inlet hole for the air, but also mounts the carburetor closer to the valve cover so I had to move over a bit.

The new adapter is closest to my gasket template in the photo.

It still needs some manual work to smooth out the rough areas... but most of the work is done.

[Luva65wagon]

Just think of all the 144, 170, 200, 250 motors out there could use these! We could be rich! OK, you could be rich. I'll be happy with just a small percentage.

:BEER:

Looks and will work great!

[Tikitime]

So how did this end up? Did you end up with a weber on your falcon?

I am seriously looking into this right now, with a weber dg/v? An adapter plate.
But it then looks like I might need to run a different distributor as well?

Hrm So many thoughts in my brain right now.

[Luva65wagon]

Conceptually it came out great. It runs OK, but I may have chosen the wrong Weber. Kenny has a DG-V as I recall, but I can't recall what one I got. The powerband feels flat to me, but honestly have never had a lot of time since doing it to tweak at it. Seems to me the Autolite 1100 provided better performance. But I don't yet know the jetting on the one I have.

As for distributor, because you have no mechanical advance, there is a special vacuum-based advance function used with early Ford systems. If you put on a carburetor lacking the special vacuum advance function you will get poor results. So you need to upgrade to a later distributor having both mechanical and vacuum advance.

Doing a Duraspark II setup is the logical upgrade with a newer carburetor setup. Pretty easy to do if you csn find the parts. I found most of mine at a PicknPull. It's the harness you need since everything else can be bought new. I make my own module while Kenny did a MSD setup.

Good luck ciphering what things you can do while you're at it!