Engine Build

[Guy Monjure]

Hello to everyone,

I have a 1963 Futura that I pulled the 170ci engine out of last weekend. I am rebuilding this block because it is the original. My goal is to build an engine with a little more torque than stock with a compression ratio of 8.6/1 to 8.8/1. This car is my daily driver. Block code (C3DE-6015-E).

I have two heads to choose from for my rebuild. Both out of Faremounts, (D7BE-6080-AB) or (D8BE-6090-BA). Which one do you recommend?

I want to use CompCam (K65-236-4 260H) for 7.808 deck height blocks.
Is this the height of my block? Will this Cam Kit work well for my application?

I want to use Fel-Pro (QKS 2300) gasket kit set. What is the compressed thickness? If I deck the block .005 useing this gasket how much do I need to mill the head for the desirered compression ratio?

When I went to the junk yard I got the exhaust manifolds from the two heads above, but both were damaged. Where can I get a new exhaust manifold for the head I will be using?

Both Faremount heads have larger carb mounting holes. Where can I get a new one barrel carb that will fit the larger holes? I want to use a one barrel so I can retain the use of the original air cleaner.

All help is greatly appreaciated,
Guy

[Luva65wagon]

Guy,

First of all, your garage is far too neat and organized. You will have to work on that. [thumb]

I don't have a lot of answers to your questions, since it would probably take a lot of math to figure all that out. I seriously doubt it has all been written down in one place specifically as asked. There is a book we all use and recommend, which I have as do others (not here with me at the moment) on rebuilding and modifying these in-line 6's. I would highly recommend it. The guy's name is Dennis Shnuglediushfds (or something like that) and it is sold all over the place.

You could also go to a few web sites; like Classic Inlines and FordSix.com (look in our resources page - found in your "Home menu" top-left) and browse around there.

I know the exhaust manifolds are re-popped because they still use them in Nicuragua or some such place. I found out last night mine is toast too, so I will be searching my parts bin to see if I kept mine from the wagon when I went over to headers. I don't want to add the expense of headers, but that is an option you have, which would be a nice boost for what you are doing. Clifford makes these.

Carbs are made for that new head with the larger base-plate. Whether they kept that same little air cleaner or increased it, I don't know, for sure. But you are getting bigger valves with these heads, and it will probably want to breathe more than the stock 170 carb did. You may have to keep the top of the air cleaner and modify the bottom of it.

Others here may know more than me too. I'm sure they'll ring in when they can.

[redfalken]

Here's a link to the book Roger describes. I would definitely order one as it will answer most of your questions and some you didn't know you had. It will give you lots of good ideas and ways to spend your money!

http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

I think most of the big Falcon vendors sell exhaust manifolds. I would consider headers though unless you're after a factory look.

D7XXXX and newer heads (1977 - 1983) should be the same so either of the ones you have should be about as good as you'll get without some modification.

Welcome and don't listen to Roger...he hasn't seen the actual interior walls of his garage in years!! :D

[Guy Monjure]

Thanks,

I have a copy of that booklet and have read through it many times. It is a great book, and one of the reasons I have choosen to take on the project of putting a 1978 200ci head onto my 1963 170ci block.

I found out from Fel-Pro that the head gasket in their QKS 2300 Gasket Kit for my 1963 170ci has a compressed thickness of .039". I learned from that booklet the OEM seal gasket has a compressed thickness of .025".

I also got with Comp Cam today and am thinking about installing their K65-235-4 kit. Has anyone used this kit on a build?

Both the 1977 and the 1978 heads have non-adjustable rockers and 8 5/16" pushrods. The 1963 head from my engine has 8 1/16" pushrods and adjustable rocker arms. I believe I can install the adjustable rocker arms from the 1963 onto the 1978 head but does anyone know what size pushrod I should use on my rebuild?

I wonder if anyone in our chapter or in the FCA has ever completed an engine build like this one. Or maybe there is an old thread on a past rebuild.

Thank you for your responces,
Guy

[Luva65wagon]

... and don't listen to Roger...he hasn't seen the actual interior walls of his garage in years!! :D

Exactly! I enjoy wandering around in circles for a half-hour saying "I know I have that in here somewhere."

I think the only one here, besides Kenny, who's actually done much work on their 6 is Gary (he's the one with the ignition queries of late). But he used a Classic In-lines head. He did do a lot of research in the beginning. My wagon engine is still as it was when I bought it - with the exception of headers, a new carb, and Pertronix ignition. I would think as long as you have adjustable rockers, the range they offer give you more push-rod length flexibility. You just need to make sure the ends are the right types.

[Guy Monjure]

Good Morning,

I am going to the machine shop today. Need to get the block cleaned up and magifluced before going any further. My plans are to have the block milled .005" to ensure any inperfections are removed and the block surface will seal properly. I am bringing my crank shaft in for balancing. Also bringing the pistons in. Going to have the block bored .030" over, order new pistons, rings, rod bearings, and crank shaft bearings. I will get the shop to press new cam shaft bearings in for me.

I think I will rebuild the bottom end first and than talk to the machine shop about which head to use. I would like to find a carb and exhaust manifold for the 1978 head before committing to using it.

I will keep the thread open to try and document the engine rebuild. If I am successful maybe we can put together a rebuild procedure for guys that want to do the same sort of rebuild as I am.

If anyone can share any information with me as I go through the rebuild it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the responce,
Guy

[MacDee]

I think the only one here, besides Kenny, who's actually done much work on their 6 is Gary (he's the one with the ignition queries of late). But he used a Classic In-lines head. He did do a lot of research in the beginning.

Yeah! I did do a lot of research early on. One of the tech articles on the Classic Inlines web site has to do with Dynamic Compression Ratio. It turns out to be more important than the Static Compression Ratio because it addresses how much of the intake charge is actually captured in the cylinder, and is significantly affected by the valve timing (when the intake valve closes). I created a spreadsheet that calculates the Dynamic Compression Ratio. If I you can provide the cam specs and the combustion chamber volume, the spreadsheet can compute the DCR. Once we get a baseline DCR, I think there are sources (Classic Inlines, Falcon 6 Performance Handbook?) which will give a head-mill vs chamber-volume relationship and we can get you to the right compression ratio.

[Guy Monjure]

Thanks for the heads up MacDee.

Got everything into the machine shop this morning. The owner told me just about the exact thing you talked about in your responce Gary. It is due to me wanting to keep the 170ci block. But it is original to my car and I just could not give it up.

We decided: to deck the block .010" and bore the cylinders .010" over stock. Keep the 170ci head and install 1.65" intake valves. Thats up from the stock 1.522" which is an increase, but will still flow nicely with this engine block. Install hardened exhaust valve seats and Comp Cam's K65-236-4 cam kit. The shop is going to mill the head to give me a final CR of 8.6/1 to 8.8/1.

Keeping my 170ci head eliminates a carb and exhaust manifold change. This makes it much easier to retain my stock air cleaner, and the stock look in my engine bay. It also eliminates pushrod length issues.

The shop told me it would be done in a week and a hafe. I can't wait to get it all back to my shop for assembly. I'll be cleaning up the engine bay untill then.

Guess I have two late 70's heads for sale!
Guy

[Guy Monjure]

Good Morning,

I was hoping to execute installing a 1978 head onto my 170ci following the Inline 6 engine booklet everyone refers to. I planned for the engine rebuild for over a year, doing my homework, gathering all the information I could. But, when it came right down to making it all come together the work was just out of my scope of expertise. It most certainly is doable but comes with an array of issues. After asking the FCA for help it became clear I was not alone, and there are certainly more questions out there than answers.

1. The valves size would be ok for a 60s 200ci block, buy with a 170ci there can be to much flow.
2. The holds in the exhaust flange are bigger and you would have to modify the smaller 170ci exhaust pipe to make it match up correctly.
3. The intake holds are further apart and do not line up with the 170ci ones. An adaptor most be used to mate it up to the carb.
4. Due to the intake carb flange being offset the carb linkage will be misaligned and is an issue.

I am sure there are more issues to be worked out in completing this head modification. I hope the time I've spent in this thread will help someone else.

Guy