Seals for wagons and sedan delivery

[doghows]

I have been looking around for the seals and gaskets to re-do the tailgate on the sedan delivery. I have found the seals that go around the gate but I need to find the ones that go on the inside of the tailgate. I have the lower glass seal and the fuzzies for the opening where the glass comes up through, but I can't seem to find the fuzzies for the two slides on the inside of the tailgate. Any one have a line on these or do I order something else and modify it to fit???
I am rounding up the seals I need to fit all the panels properly to do the body work and I would just as soon put the tail gate together now since it is already powder coated and ready for putty...
Thanks for any help Steve H.:confused:

[doghows]

Anyone found these. I really need help.
Come on Roger I know your car is nice and it has a tailgate with the window.:rolleyes: Thanks Steve...

[redfalken]

Hi Steve,

Roger mentioned at the meeting last week that he's been tearing his hair out at work getting ready for a big show in Las Vegas. He may be knee deep in work right now!

Just thought I'd let you know.

[doghows]

Cool Thanks for the Heads up. I will stand by patiently. Unless anyone else has a clue about these parts.?.

[Jeff W]

I am thinking (I'll know more after you do it) it is the same as the other window channel. I had my gate open last weekend and there was a small bit of the old stuff left and it had the small chrome bead on one side. I would go for this and see if you can cut to length... I think about 16" per side if we are talking about the same thing. I had to replace both of my plastic rollers to get the thing to roll up/down.

Let me know what you find out.

From Falconparts.com - I know it's not the seal you are looking for, but I suspect (and hope) it's the same material.

1960-1965 TAILGATE WINDOW GLASS CHANNEL (http://falconparts.com/1960%2D1965+TAILGATE+WINDOW+GLASS+CHANNEL.html)
Category: GLASS CHANNEL
Product ID: C0DB-59422A36-B
Description: This is the tailgate window glass channel/weatherstrip seal which is mounted on the body. This seal is made of the same material as the door window top and rear glass channel seals and requires the same type of trim to fit installation procedures. It is 96 inches long which is enough material to do both vertical channels as well as the horizontal channel.

[doghows]

That is kind is what I was thinking as well. I have those moldings on the way and I was going to try it. If it works I will order more of it. I will keep you posted. Thanks for the confirmation of what I was thinking.[thumb]

[Jeff W]

Okay.. I have totally disassembled my tailtage. I don't think the inside glass rails are the same as the window run as previously suspected. It appears to be the same rigid track that is used for the division bar on the front door. It's expensive.

[Luva65wagon]

Steve,

Don't know how I missed this... but I did. Sorry about that. You should'a knocked me up-side the head when I saw you at the swap meet. I'd have deserved it.

[AGREE]

I've stared at my seals and am glad the U-shaped one on the body is in reasonably good shape. They are not reproduced yet. Yes, the glass runners are the rigid bits like those on the division bars, which I bought some of and I don't recall, but I think someone else needed it worse than I did and I "let it go" to someone else. But when I got mine it wasn't all that expensive - but that was 10 years ago. Somewhere I have another set of those, but I have no clue as to how good they are. I have to dig out in the shed on Wednesday to see if I have a big-block water pump, so if I do and they are good they are yours.

I don't know why someplace like Dennis Carpenter doesn't repop all the tailgate seals, since I think they are pretty much the same for 60-65 everything Falcon wagon. But they don't. So it will take making them as best you can.

Did you get my PM about the photo request?

[Luva65wagon]

OK, read a little more and yes, the upper seal linked by Jeff is a press-in loose-like seal like those in the front doors, upper and rear and for us with rear windows the same is used. Sadly, this stuff is nowhere near as good a quality as the original and tends to twist and fall out if not glued into place. I think there is some that is higher quality that I saw somewhere (will have to look) and if I had to do it over, I would get the more expensive stuff.

[doghows]

Cool Thanks guys. I am waiting for some back orders right now and as soon as I have them I will see if those work. Sounds like the wrong ones though.
Roger got you PM. will get those off to you asap. And thanks for all the help. Put up some new pics today of the delivery. The twinkle at the end of the road is a little brighter now...:rocker:

[Jeff W]

Steve,


I've stared at my seals and am glad the U-shaped one on the body is in reasonably good shape. They are not reproduced yet. I don't know why someplace like Dennis Carpenter doesn't repop all the tailgate seals, since I think they are pretty much the same for 60-65 everything Falcon wagon. But they don't. So it will take making them as best you can.

Did you get my PM about the photo request?


You must not have looked recently. The "U" seal between the body and lower tailgate. $120. They list 60-63 and a different part number for 64-65. I can find all the parts with the exception of the lower rails we are talking about. I'm going to make mine using the division bar material. You can also buy the original type rivets.

Let me know what you find on a better material for the glass run. I know they sell some with stainless bead... that may add some rigidity and also extra bling that my base model lacks.


Here is a picture of the elusive window channel for the "non-wagon" owners...

[Luva65wagon]

True, Jeff, it has been a while - and honestly I didn't look all that hard because mine are in OK shape. Where is this U-seal available from?

The seal I meant was flimsy is the one that goes around the top of the rear window in the roof and rear pillars.

As for the division bar rails, these are hidden in the tailgate and the stainless bead will not add any strength -- just added cost. And you'll never see 'em. I had purchased a 5 or 6' piece at the swap meet or maybe it was at that rod shop in Snohomish, which moved to Aurora north and then ended up on 205th in Lake Ballinger... before disappearing altogether. Can't recall the name of the place at this moment. Anyway, I let that piece go to someone. Man, I hate it when I do stuff I don't remember.

:confused:

[Jeff W]

Dennis Carpenter had most of the rubber pieces I was looking for and prices are about the same as the other places.

It was the regular window run (side windows top and rear) that I was considering the stainless bead.

I am going to go with a modern style beltline (Fuzzy) like you did. since I don't have a garage I need to keep out all the water I can.

[Luva65wagon]

I just remembered picking up a Dennis Carpenter catalog a couple weeks ago - and sure enough, there they all are. Steve, Jeff, if you pick up a set, let me know what they look like. DC stuff is usually pretty good.

[Luva65wagon]

Dennis Carpenter had most of the rubber pieces I was looking for and prices are about the same as the other places.

It was the regular window run (side windows top and rear) that I was considering the stainless bead.

I am going to go with a modern style beltline (Fuzzy) like you did. since I don't have a garage I need to keep out all the water I can.

I think the stainless rigid division bar only applies to the back-side of the wing window, aka "the division bar." And these hidden tracks in the tailgate. All the rest of the weatherstripping is a u-shaped pre-molded cats-tongue track that pushes in and stays put via a little catch edge.

I got lots of the stuff I pulled out for the door beltline -- if you want to have it. If I ever need to replace it, I'll buy new stuff.

[Jeff W]

Tailgate glass guides weather-strip. - Warning: The following is extremely boring - only of interest to wagon owners in middle of a rebuild:

I have not installed these on the car or tailgate yet, but they are ready to go.

1) The material used:

Rigid Channel Division Bar - This is the same material used for the front door glass - snaps into the stainless channel behind vent window. These are sold in "pairs" and are 30" long. You will want to buy the less expensive "generic" divider bar that is not pre-machined with slots and holes for the door application. One "pair" will do the entire tailgate area with 3" to spare.

5/32 (qty 16) rivet. I could not easily find the OEM type so I used some stainless pop-rivets with 1/4" grab. These were a bit too long to allow a nice peen - I trimmed them a bit.

2) The pair of guides inside the tailgate was straight forward. These guides consist of only the Division bar (14-1/2") and two brackets.


Cut the new Division Bar (Mine was 14-1/2" but use your old one as a guide) - set aside.
Drill out the rivets (4) from your existing piece and remove the two brackets.
Carefully mark and drill the holes (4) in your new 14-1/2" Division Bar. I inserted a thin piece of wood into the channel to support the glued on felt during drilling.
Install the two brackets using your rivets. I didn't have a rivet gun narrow enough to get down into the channel so I used a rod held in my bench vice as the anvil and started the peen using a punch, then graduated to a small peen hammer.
The felt didn't appear to be glued very well to the U-Channel. I took the extra step and used epoxy to glue the last 1/2" of the felt back onto the metal channel. I didn't want this felt to peel off during use.
3) The upper guides mount to the body and guide/hold the glass in its "UP" position. These were installed in much the same way with the following notes:

These uppers do not have brackets, they mount to metal strips that screw to the upper body. Paint these your interior color before assembly (not the Division Bar).
Division Bar was cut to 14" (NOTE: my original bars had evidence of the felt being longer, folded and glued to the back of the metal channel. I'm assuming this was intended to keep the glass from peeling the felt off of the backing U-channel as the glass enters from below. I did the same by taking a small screwdriver and carefully loosening some of the felt from the end of the metal channel, cutting the metal bar with care, then using epoxy to adhere the felt to the inside and where it folds to the outside. I temporarily pressed in a piece of wood to hold the felt to the inside while the glue cured.
Snap the reworked Division Bar into the holder strip. I used a razor and shaved the felt/epoxy fold to allow easier installation. The holder bar is actually slotted which allows this thicker end to insert with ease.
Drill holes for rivets (4) in each Division Bar using wood strip and a backer.
Rivet (4 per side) - peen these guys very flat. When installing, there is a rubber strip with clearance holes used to back these. If the rivet sits proud of the rubber strip, clearance issues.
These may be confusing instructions - I'm guessing the below pictures are all you need. Good luck.

Mine wagon is an early 1963 - this may not be the same as earlier or later models. I believe some models use regular glass run for the uppers. As with any project, check your application before plowing forward.

[Jeff W]

I did one last step last night. I was a little worried that the heads of the pop rivets sat too high inside the track (they are slightly crowned) and would rub the edge of the glass. I turned the pieces upside down with the newly peened side against my anvil then used a large faced pin punch and a three pound mallet to really smash the crown flat. Now the rivet heads are lower than the felt lining inside the channels.[thumb]

[Jeff W]

I must be missing something... My tailgate was missing all the window weatherstrip and beltline when I got it. I bought the items I thought I needed and laid it all out tonight. I can't figure out how it all goes together.

I have a new piece of special wagon "window tape" that secures the glass to the lower channel. It has a long lip in the outside that somehow mates with the outer rubber seal that mounts to the outer skin. Everything looks backward to me. I don't know if I'm missing a part . My manual Swiss some pictures but not the detail I need.

Any pictures or advice is appreciated. I think the 60 - 63 are all the same.

[Jeff W]

I think I have it all figured out. I expected a nice water tight seal... apparently it's a bit of a Mickey Mouse set-up.

[doghows]

Remember how you do it. I might need help when I put mine back together???

[Jeff W]

I'll take pictures of everything. One of my problems was mounting the tail gate seal upside down. Apparently it is SUPPOSED to fill up with 1/2 gallon of water like a water trough. Those wacky engineers.

[Luva65wagon]

Jeff, I know exactly how all this goes together and I'm not sure why you say it's supposed to fill up with water? Although I know it's not wholly watertight either, the tailgate glass bedding seal has a "wing" that is supposed to go up under the edge of the upper part of the outer skin when you roll up the window. This then acts like a "trough" for water to skirt towards the ends of the glass track and not pour all over the crank gears and rollers - and then drain out the bottom.

I learned about this when I first built my tailgate and replaced all the tracks and seals (as many as I could find 10 years ago, anyway). They sold me the same bedding gasket with the wing, but for whatever reason didn't tell me this doesn't work on the square-body wagons. Didn't know until I was all done and then had to take it all apart again. The shape of the outer skin doesn't allow this wing, but a 60-63 being rounded, it clears everything going up.

Anyway, maybe I misunderstood, but it's really not that bad a seal idea -- wish it was as good for the 64/65 models.

Also, when you put the tailgate glass together, don't put the inner skin on until you've closed the gate (it won't latch yet) and adjusted the up/down left/right alignment of the glass track standoffs. Means climbing into the back with the gate closed (resting on the rubber bumpers) and using an Allen key and a wrench to tweak each of them until the glass goes up and down smoothly. Loads of fun - that one.

[Jeff W]

I guess I was expecting something a bit more sealed.

Here is a picture of the window mounted to the lower track. The soft soap and bar clamps really helped with the installation.

I will not be assembling the tailgate for a spell... Today I noticed a bunch of bubbles in the tailgate... it willl have to stripped and repainted.

[doghows]

That looks just like what I did to mine. That seal was a pain. On a good note I have your parts. Bad news I don't have a marker light assembly. I do have your gasket and lock gizmo. Also have the window regulator as well. Now I just need to get them to you guys... Good luck with that tailgate.
P.S. Did I mention body work sucks???:doh: Steve...

[Jeff W]

Next I need to attach the chrome strip to the top of the glass. I need to buy some 3/32" glass setting tape and follow the same bar clamp routine.

Steve, if I find some tape, should I shoot 4' of it your way or have you already done this?

[doghows]

I have not done that yet. If it is available cut me off a chunk and I will trade you for the other parts I have for you... Thanks...

[Jeff W]

I'll get some glass setting tape for you Steve.

So here is my latest issue - the rear splash guard (Dennis Carpenter 1960-63) looks like it may be incorrect for my car. this is the rubber strip that mounts to the body lip behind the rear bumper. The center section looks like it was made for a different profile. Anybody been here before? -picture attached.

I'm also attaching a picture of the lovely paint bubbles that are multiplying (daily) on the tailgate :mad:. I am watching the entire car closely and do not see it elsewhere... strange but hopeful. As soon at it is street legal, it's going back for repair.

[SmithKid]

I had exactly the same piece and issues trying to make it fit to the Ranchero. I never found the correct piece. I got mine from Melvin's, but the packaging said Dennis Carpenter also. Roger came by one day and we made it work by forcing it to follow the countour of the ridge it mouints on, but its not the right piece in my opinion and doesn't really "seal" to the bumper. It kinda hangs down like a mud flap, which still will deflect, but not "seal". If you find the correct piece, I may consider changing it.
Gene

[SmithKid]

Oh yeah, coincidentily, I also had blisters appear within a few weeks after the paint was applied to mine. It also went back to be repaired. The blisters on my Ranchero were on the passenger side. Almost the full length of the quarter panel.
Gene

[pbrown]

I'll get some glass setting tape for you Steve.

So here is my latest issue - the rear splash guard (Dennis Carpenter 1960-63) looks like it may be incorrect for my car. this is the rubber strip that mounts to the body lip behind the rear bumper. The center section looks like it was made for a different profile. Anybody been here before? -picture attached.


I have the same seal on my 62. It fits fine. The sheet metal looks different on mine.

[Luva65wagon]

What I did with this same seal on someone's car is match the end parts that match the metal contours first, then find the center and fasten that part. Now work toward the ends and bunch up the two formed parts so that there's a couple troughs. Seemed to work.

Clearly there is primer still flashing off under the paint. Gases in the primer are causing the bubbles. Sucks.

[Luva65wagon]

Maybe it was Gene's Ranchero. Gene, doesn't that look familiar? I tend to do some things on autopilot, so can't recall if it was yours.

[Edit] Never mind - I just read up top instead of just looking at the pictures (that autopilot thing kicking in) and see Gene already posted. Gene, I thought it would have been pretty good.