8" Rear End for my wagon

[Luva65wagon]

I know... :ROTFLMAO:

I'd consider getting another 7.25" as well. I'm hearing some growling from back yonder coming back from the XXX the other day. Don't want to pull it apart and find it bad and not have a backup.

[redfalken]

Hold out for an 8" if you can. I really like mine. The 2.79 gears compared to the 3.5 in my 7.25" make it a nice highway cruiser. And with my fairly stock six it's not like I'd be smokin' off the line anyway.

Prowl the Pull-A-Parts and check craigslist!

[Nathan289]

Roger,

I have a complete 7.25 from a 64 hardtop if you need it.. I'd be willing to drive it over the mountains for ya too..

I know where a 70's comet is.. I'll see if it has the 8" rear.. I have a 8" center pumpkin laying around with a mystery 8" housing if you need.. not sure what they were out of.. might be good for customizing

Nathan

[Luva65wagon]

Nathan - Thanks for the offer. Were you planning to drive over here anyway for something? I don't feel worthy to have you come all that way just to do a parts run. What would it cost me in gas to have you do such a thing anyway (of course I'd want to do at least that -- and maybe offer you an old 3-speed tranny, in return). [thumb]

[Nathan289]

Roger,

Nope no plans for going that way, but I'm sure I could find a car to purchase while Im over there. (Like I need another falcon), but a XXX burger sounds good.

The wife wants a 64 Hardtop.. Anything from 63.5 to 65 works for me..

I dont need a 3 speed I have a replacement for the one I gave you.(thought you gave it to someone else?) interested in another? I also have a c-4 that was behind a 250 six so it has a sbf bellhousing.. hmmm I have two complete front ends one four lug and one five.. I have another set of five lug spindles. ummmm two steering boxes. some wierd 8" rear, another set of sbf headers, couple of starters, two generators, a complete used but running 170, and alot of other misc stuff. PLUS the 7.25 that I'm offering you.. no idea on condition other than it was pulled from a driving car that the owner swapped to v-8 stuff.

Good news is cost of gas isn't $4 a gallon, bad news is my truck has a thirty gallon tank and takes about $75 at $2.50 a gallon to fill it..

Not sure when I could drive over, but that can be worked out later if needed.

Nathan

[Nathan289]

Roger,

Found this posting
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/1516176948.html


Nathan

[Luva65wagon]

Thanks Nathan. I'll check, but my bet is that's a 5-lug 8"

As for the stuff you have, maybe if I don't find something by spring...

I'm off this week, so if the weather holds I'll freeze my way into the Pull-a-Part and see what they have, if anything. Maybe even go to the one in Tacoma too.

[Nathan289]

Roger,

Sounds good to me. I just sold the v-8 suspension stuff so I'm down one box in my garage. I'd like to eliminate some more stuff.. Though I have another set of v-8 spindles to pick up still..

Nathan

[Luva65wagon]

Well... I hit the Lynnwood Pull-a-Part yesterday and low and behold they had two Mavericks there with 6's -- but no rear end in either. They were a '73 and a '74 so they were probably 5-lugger versions anyway. It was only the '70 version with the 4-lug 8", right?

They both had pretty complete 250ci engines. One had the head pulled already -- sitting alongside the car. So if anyone wanted one of these, their work is already done for them.

After striking out on the 8"er I walked around to measure anything else. All later Ford 4-lug went 4x4.25, but I found a mid-70's Toyota wagon with a 4x4.5 pattern and rear wheel drive. :WHATTHE: No, wouldn't do that. (It was too puny and narrow, anyway.) ;)

So, the search continues. Or, now that I'm feeling a little better (came down with some 5-day crud on Christmas Eve) I may just go pull the cover off the 7.25 and just look in there -- at the very least. No real way of knowing whether it's got bad bearings without a total dismantle, but I can check ring/pinion condition and end-play. Too bad the garage is colder than it is outside and the floor even colder. :confused:

[Luva65wagon]

Why for Nathan?

[Nathan289]

I was trying to reply using my cell phone. It must not have worked.. oh well..:rolleyes:

I still have that 7 1/4 for ya if you need it..

I've been looking at that 65 hardtop posted on CL in Lewis County.. More $ than I want to spend but maybe I can make an offer and see how desperate he is about etting it out of his shop

Have you seen the guy in arlington that has a bunch of 8"s? maybe he has a 4 lug 8" laying around.. I believe you are looking for 69 to early 71 Mavs or comets.. I hear pintos and mustang2s have four lug 8s but the bolt pattern is different.

Nathan

[pbrown]

There is a 71 Maverick with the rear end at All American Classics. The stock number is V05952. You'll have to call for the price. I suspect it will be about $300. The Pull-a-Part is a much better deal if you can find them.

I don't remember when the change from four to five lugs happened. The 70 is for sure a four lug. There are two of those in Lewiston ID for $300 each.

[Luva65wagon]

There are two of those in Lewiston ID for $300 each.

Patrick,

Did this come to you in a dream, or is there something more than this I can go on? :D

A part of me thinks it would just be easier to convert to a V8 and go 5-lug than it will be to find a 4-lug 8"er locally... for reasonable money. The only hesitation to get another 7.25 (from Nathan or locally) is the parts are supposed to be near impossible to find. Sort of like trying to find a 8" 4-lugger -or- making one good Dagenham 4-speed out of 3. Humm... been there, done that. :confused:

Considering I would likely not just throw something in as-is, and unknown, (paint it and go), I'm beginning to think this could wind up a $600+ swap minimum if the core is gonna cost $300 plus gas and parts.

Pulling the cover off and seeing what I've got already is looking like the thing to do... for now. And then keep looking in the Pull-a-Part on the way home once a week. Wish they'd get with the times and do a daily "new to the yard" page on a web site somewhere.

Oh, and Nathan, I don't think I care if the guy in Arlington did have one. But thanks for the suggestion. I drove all the way up there one afternoon after work, fighting traffic, because he said he had a "pretty decent" fender for my wagon (this was during my fender search a couple years ago). When I finally got there (2.5 hours later) he had lots of stuff (that I will admit), but the fender was toast and he wanted something like $250 for it. "Oh, those are really hard to find in any shape, so I couldn't let it go for anything less than that." I said sorry to have bothered him and left -- vowing never to return. Got two fenders in almost perfect shape within the next month or so for less than $150 for the pair. Suffice it to say, once I get burned by someone - anyone - they can ki... uh, well, I think I'll just leave it at that... :mad:

[pbrown]

Patrick,
Did this come to you in a dream, or is there something more than this I can go on? :D


Look on www.car-part.com (http://www.car-part.com). It's a wrecking yard search engine.

As for going five lug - I have a mostly complete 65 V8 steering setup and a set of 65 V8 Mustang spindles. All that is missing is the outer tie rod ends. Do you have a 1" sector shaft on your steering box?

[Jeff W]

Kenny and I went to the Tacoma Pull-A Part today. There are not any Comets or Mavericks there - you can scratch that one off your list. Almost all of the Fords were Egg Shaped.

I did get a cable throttle assembly, regulator and harness for my Alternator conversion, a C4 neutral/Reverse switch.

It was a muddy mess down there but at least it wasn't raining and the company was good.:BEER:

[Luva65wagon]

Thanks for keeping an eye open for me. Getting to Tacoma didn't happen that week I was off, 'cause I was sick -- but I knew if I went it would be a long, wasted day. Glad it wasn't for you though. [thumb] Thanks again for the Sequim tip, too. Will see what that guy says.

[Luva65wagon]

Well, with the sharp eyes of a forum member (thanks to Ralph aka: 62 Comet) on the other side of the pond (Poulsbo side) I have found a 4-lug 8" rear-end. It's not the prettiest thing in the world and will no-doubt need a thorough going through, but I'll be heading there (over on the ferry and through the woods) in the morning (Sat) to pick it up. Cost: $250 for the unknown! :( Although I could have got it for $150 if I wanted to muck around in the rain first thing in the morning. $100 more and I'm getting all the attaching bits and pieces as well (asked them not to torch it off, unless the torch the leaf springs instead and left it to me to unbolt it all). So, oh boy! Work.

Will be trying to contact Steve as well to see if I can check out his Sedan Delivery.

[redfalken]

Sweet! All that oil and road grime actually preserves it! Mine looked just as filthy and once I cleaned it up there were even some factory yellow grease pencil marks left from 30+ years ago.

I called around to see what it would cost to have it rebuilt and adjusted but it seemed REALLY expensive. Maybe around $400 if I remember correctly. So...it just got a good cleaning and a paint job. So far so good. What are your plans for it? Will it need to be narrowed?

[Luva65wagon]

Shoot Kenny, I don't know what I'll need to do, just yet. According to the documents I read on-line the Maverick is 58" drum-to-drum whereas the 64-65 Falcon is 56.5" I have no clearance issues now with my current tires (easily two inched per side if I recall), so I'm inclined to just leave it as-is if I can. We'll see.

I can't imagine with all that crud on it that it got there by osmosis. I'm sure something was leaking. Heck, maybe it was the automatic tranny oil- if that's what it had. It sure is cruddy though.

Hope the tag is still on it. I'll start a tech thread once I get it home and start looking at it.

[Luva65wagon]

Well, I moved this tread to the tech forum to continue it here.

So the progress is moving forward. I have the punkin cleaned and repainted and the axle housing is cleaned and ready to paint. Would have loved to sand-blast this too, like Kenny mentioned on his 8" rebuild site, but alas, it is just a rear-end. I did use your gasket templates though, Kenny. Thanks for those.

As it turns out I had the measurements bass-ackwards from something I posted earlier. The Maverick rear in 1.5" narrower than the wagon was. Certainly not the same as what Kenny had with his (the Maverick was 3/4" longer for him). SO the round-body cars must be really short if you (Kenny) needed to narrow it even more. The Maverick width, flange to flange (no axles yet), is 52" and the wagon is 53.5" -- and you essentially add 5" to that for the axle flange to axle flange length. So my wheels will be further in than they are now by 3/4" on each side. Now I got room for big meats! [thumb] Well, not really. Would still need different rims to do that I think.

Luckily I have room for this on the backside and it will hardly be noticed, but I was hoping it might be the other direction. I have a lot of room towards the wheel well/body edge.

One thing I am baffle by is the lack of drain holes on the axle shaft flanges. Generally I see the gasket (like Kenny posted) allowing any run-off off gear oil (in the event of an axle seal failure) having a place to go other than all over your brake shoes. There doesn't appear to be any accommodation for this on the 8" axles. I'm still studying these parts to see if I'm missing something, but if I am I don't see it.

I came in to check some things on-line and will head out again in a few to take some pictures, so I'll post those later.

[Luva65wagon]

Here's a few images of the progress. More in the next thread.

[Luva65wagon]

Have the housing cleaned and one coat of paint on it so far. I'll put on a few coats before I decide whether to mimic the marking (just for fun). You'll note the number 4 painted on the pumpkin, it was foun after I cleaned it up. It had a dawb of green paint on the yoke as well, but I don't have any green paint. Considering this isn't a '65 rear-end -- most of this is meaningless anyway. ;)

[Luva65wagon]

Now here is where you'd normally have a "drain" in the axle flange, but there is nothing here to accommodate a drain. Still thinking about that. I seem to always recall seeing something in that regard.

The seals appear to have been replaced, and perhaps the axle bearings too. Have yet to clean the axles, but the bearing feel fine and tight.

Ordered a bunch of parts to do the brakes with all new stuff. Interestingly the wagon and this Maverick had exactly the same size rear brakes (9x1.5"), so I had a new set of shoes on the shelf. I originally ordered a bunch of parts from Rock Auto, since Kenny mentions them a lot, but they would have ended up shipping the stuff I added to the cart from 3 locations and would have charged almost $35 for shipping for less than a pound of parts all tolled. So I cancelled that order and got everything I needed from National Parts Depot from a Mustang catalog including things Rock Auto didn't have. Anyone with Falcon parts ought to consider getting a NPD Mustang catalog. Lots of a Mustang is made up of Falcon parts -- but the Mustang parts can be much cheaper.

[redfalken]

Looking good Roger! It's amazing what scrubbing off all that road grime will reveal.

I wondered the same thing about the draining but maybe not that much oil ever makes it up the tubes?? The retainer plate on mine was shaped like it should have a hole for drainage but there wasn't one. I'm guessing the bearing would have to fail pretty bad before any oil could get past them.

[doghows]

That looks great from the condition it was in when I saw it at the house. You should have let me powder coat it for you. Oh well, when you get done with that come over and help me cut and weld some sheet metal. I have a long way to go before my rig is a purrty as yours. Later

[Luva65wagon]

Steve,

I seriously debated calling you and seeing what we could work out -- then I said to myself "it's a rear end" and kept scrubbing. It actually cleaned up really well in just a couple hours using engine cleaner to emulsify the crud. Then a scotch-bright rotary pad and it was beautimous. Some thinned 7777 Derusto and a foam brush is going on nice and smooth with no overspray (can't spray outside or inside right now). May have it ready to go together this weekend if the parts get here.

Troy sent me two sets of lower shock supports (thanks Troy, check your mail in a couple days) and so I'll be working on making custom parts from these. Then it'll be figuring out a driveline.

[InkedForLife]

Roger,
No sweat! Glad they are going to work out. Whichever ones you don't use, go ahead and sell at the upcoming swap meet and put the money in the club funds.

Troy

[Luva65wagon]

Well, thought I'd post an update. I've been cleaning and painting for a few days and it's all almost ready to begin the swap. Still need to do a couple things, but may get it in this next week if my back gets a little better... just in time for me to throw it out again to do this. :NERVOUS:

Some updated pics below. Found I could just file the holes in the lower shock/axle plates to accommodate the bigger u-bolts. An hour of filing later and all was good. No cutting and welding!

[doghows]

Nice work; can you do that for my rear end??:ROTFLMAO: Just kidding looks great. I'll put some pics up of my progress later today.[thumb]

[Luva65wagon]

I got a little side-tracked with the F350 I just got. Kind'a doing two things at once now, but I did get the shock brackets painted and I could actually start to pull the old one out and figure out what other parts I might need (brake lines, mostly) and then try to figure out the driveline thing. I have two drivelines now; my current and the one I got at the wrecker from a Maverick they had. I'm not sure which I'll use yet.

Early Bird Swap meet is this weekend, so it'll probably be the weekend after and I'll start on that.

[Luva65wagon]

Wow, it's been two months since I stopped on this project, but got the old rear-end out and the new one up and in this last weekend. Hooking up the brakes now while I await the new brake hose coming from Modesto.

I took measurements of the driveline and took mine and a pull-a-part driveline that was actually the correct length, but needed one end swapped on it, to Drivelines NW in Everett. The guy there was fascinated (and truly amazed) by my previous work on shortening mine from when I did the 4-speed swap. Hey, all I can say is that it didn't shake and saved me at least $251.14 back then.

I figured while I was out dropping things off to have them done (rather than me taking things into my own hands... I'm slacking, I know) I took a core steering box down to Red Head Steering and they (in one day) rebuilt my box. If everything Jay Baker says about them is true, I'm in for a dramatic change when that goes in.

Sadly... as I was under the car this weekend I noted a puddle of water under the engine, so I cleared off the stuff I got stored on the hood and had a peek -- guess I'll be replacing a freeze-plug or five before I start driving it this season. :( May as well just send the headers off to be coated since I got to pull those off to get to the freeze-plugs. No need to stop while I'm on a roll.
[AGREE]

[doghows]

Don't you hate that. You start out with a simple plan and the farther you go the more you find to do.:bicker: I feel your pain, but I can't take mine any farther apart so hope fully no more surprises for me. Show us some pics when its done, I'd like to see that cause I just scored that 8" for my project.
Maybe I will make it over to a gathering soon now that the Ranchero is running good. (doesn't look to good though).

[Luva65wagon]

I took the day off today to help my neighbor load up his truck and headed over to Drivelines NW this morning first-thing to pick up my new driveline. It wasn't done yet. "Oh, he's working on it now. Should be done around 10AM." OK, drive back home and drive my neighbor to get the truck and car trailer and loaded until about 1PM and headed back to Drivelines NW and picked it up. It only cost $160, which was leas than he'd quoted me. Not gonna complain. Now I just need to crawl under there and hope it's done right. Didn't get a chance tonight since I only just finished seeing my neighbor off on his new journey. I know, it would only take 10 minutes -- but I'm shot.

I also picked up my Red Head steering box on Thursday evening -- feels really nice. That should be an interesting thing -- if it's anything like what Joel said. Amazed they could turn that around so fast. They must have had 100 boxes in various states of repair in that shop.

I ordered a brake hose for the back, but they only listed lengths and fitting sizes, not the hole size for the vent bolt (why??). So the $35 hose came and it had the small hole and I needed a large hole. And with the special order -- no returns. So, I cut the large bolt last night, bored it and tapped it to the 1/2-20 of the small bolt, and contoured one end to match the tube and with some Loctite - screwed it in until it was flush. Now I can use the new hose with the small bolt. What a pain, but it'll work fine.

So that's where it stands. Should be able to work on it some more on Sunday, I hope. And I'll get some more pictures taken and posted.

[Luva65wagon]

OK, realized I'd forgotten to shut off the lights and lock up the garage from earlier today -- so curiosity got the best of me. The driveline fits. [thumb] And by the way, it's the same length as yours Kenny - 53", but I've got the small yoke on one end and the large one on the other.

[Luva65wagon]

Well, here's a few pics of the rest of it installed. The brakes are on as is the driveline. Still need to bleed the brakes yet, but will get around to that soon. As you can see in some of these photo's I should do some other things,,, while I'm at it.

[Luva65wagon]

Humm... this picture didn't appear..

[doghows]

That is way too pretty to hide under the car. You'll have to create something to lift your car up at the shows so every one can see that. Nice work...[thumb]

[BadBird]

Really looking very good. I agree, you will have to show this work off. Mirrors!!!

[Luva65wagon]

No mirrors just yet folks... not until I get all my "while I'm at it" projects done I mentioned in my latest blog. Placing an order with Eastwood for a couple things to finish those up... but honestly I've laid under there like a mad-man, staring, pondering, cursing, praying, mumbling... and I honestly don't see this as an mirror under the car sort of car. :o

But thanks for the boost! [thumb] I hope someone enjoys what will end up being the end of me. :rolleyes:

[Luva65wagon]

Well, I finally drove it today, and no clunks or howls from the new rear-end. The steering feels really nice too. I did install a one-wire alternator "while I was at it" and that isn't charging, so it's research time to see if my one-wire was hooked up wrong. :confused:

[pbrown]

Well, I finally drove it today, and no clunks or howls from the new rear-end. The steering feels really nice too. I did install a one-wire alternator "while I was at it" and that isn't charging, so it's research time to see if my one-wire was hooked up wrong. :confused:

How do you hook up a one wire alt wrong? It has only one wire. :D

[Luva65wagon]

That of course, was meant sort of as a joke, since of course you can't really hook up one wire wrong.

I did install a 140 amp circuit breaker in the hot lead (as is suggested on just about every 3G upgrade site -- yes, this is a 3G alternator modded to fit the early ford cars). Many sites just show going to a wrecking yard and pulling one off a car, swapping pulleys, etc, but this one was new and already done that way. I used a 6 ga. wire and may increase that to 4 ga when I get some terminal ends to fit that size wire. I have the wire.

Anyway, as I searched on the Net last night I had noted a "Ground here to test" marking on the regulator on mine, and found that will show the unregulated output on the alternator. So this morning I put it all back in and fired it up, grounded that screw, and it came to life and so far hasn't stopped charging. It went to like 18 volts while grounded and has been pushing 14.5 ever since.

So, there you have it.

I will say, this thing really sound like it is putting out the current. You can actually hear it. My battery is a little flat from sitting for 6 months, so it's charging away like mad.

[thumb]

[Luva65wagon]

When I was doing all that work under my wagon I decided I really ought to clean up my gas tank and straps, so I did. I used temporary straps while I blasted mine and painted them with this stuff I had called Rubber Synlac. The tank was done with Eastwood's TankTone. Now I just need to undercoat the rest of it under there to deal with the minor surface rust. Real soon now.

Clearly, I need to polish the chrome. :o