Freddie's Transplant

[Nathan289]

1. Lack of zinc in oil... but I suspect there's more involved
2. Over adjusted rocker arms... added to the bad oil.
3. Plugged oil gallery that supplies oil to the lifters in cylinder 5.

If it was just the oil the all the lifters would show wear.

So my guess is problem 2 or 3..

Though I'm sure todays oils don't help.

[ew1usnr]

1. Lack of zinc in oil... but I suspect there's more involved. Though I'm sure todays oils don't help.

I have used 5W-30 oil with Cam-Shield ZDDP additive in my re-built stock 260. Then I had an oil guy tell me that the additive changes the chemistry of the oil and I was better off using 15W-40 diesel oil. The diesel oil is supposed to have enough zinc.

What oil do you guys use?

See: "Another alternative is to use heavy-truck diesel-oil, which is formulated for 18-wheelers and at present still has a full complement of traditional anti-wear additives that have been significantly reduced in today's street-legal passenger car oils. (Though even diesel oils will start reducing zinc content in 2007 as big rigs gear up to receive catalytic converters.) Comp Cams swears by Shell Rotella T diesel oil for use in high-performance street cars."

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...#ixzz3A8scveys

[Nathan289]

Diesel oils no longer have zinc in them either. New semis have catalytic converters and exhaust filters. That's why the fuel is now ultra low sulfur and the oil has been changed.

I run Valvoline vr1 racing oil. Usually in a 20-50 for summer 10-30 for winter.

Valvoline has vr 1
Kendall has gt 1
Lucas has a classic car formula
Amsoil has a classic car formula
Joe Gibbs racing """""""""
Schaffer's. """""""""""""


There are probably other oils that have zinc additives.

There's also the replacement zinc additives you can buy.. I know the hyper lube zinc additive doesn't contain zinc..
Comp cams, edelbrock, Lucas, and others sell bottles of zinc replacement.
Stp in the blue bottle iirc contains zddp which is a zinc replacement. Problem is I couldn't get anyone at stp to tell me how much zinc in parts per million the bottle contained nor how much ppm it would be mixed with 5 quarts of oil.

For good oil info check out bob the oil guy...

[ew1usnr]

I run Valvoline vr1 racing oil. Usually in a 20-50 for summer 10-30 for winter.

Hello, Nathan.

I did some research and found that ZDDP additive can actually lower the lubrication of some oils. You can therefore get more reliable and predictable results by using an oil that is already formulated with ZDDP. Here are my notes:

Zinc Question:
10W-30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi “wear protection capability”, at 230 degrees F.
Over 90,000 psi = OUTSTANDING protection. Zinc = 1472 ppm, Phos = 1544 ppm, ZDDP = 1500 ppm.
See: http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836

O’Reilly has Valvoline VR1 for $6.19/qt. Part Number: RACE10-30. It is $5.99/qt at Advance Auto.
See: http://www.valvoline.com/products/br...ng-motor-oil/6
VR1 Racing Oil (VR1) The #1 selling racing motor oil. High zinc provides race-level protection for any vehicle. High zinc/phosphorus provides extreme wear protection, including flat tappet applications. Additional friction modifiers to help deliver maximum horsepower. Compatible with gasoline or alcohol fuels. Formulated for race engines, but compatible with passenger vehicles too. Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. VR1 is available in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 10W-30, straight 30, and 20W-50. VR1 is designed for street use and normal service intervals of 3000 miles.

Valvoline VR1 10W-30.png

That all sounds reasonable.

[MacDee]

1. Lack of zinc in oil... but I suspect there's more involved
2. Over adjusted rocker arms... added to the bad oil.
3. Plugged oil gallery that supplies oil to the lifters in cylinder 5.

#1) My engine builder used SAE 30 with ZDDP additive. I've been using Kendall GT1 Platinum 20-50 specifically because it has ZDDP.
#2) Have always seemed to have an issue with valve adjustment. No matter what I did, or how many times I did it over, I ended up with noisy lifters.... I wonder if I just had some bad lifters?
#3) My engine builder was particularly good at ensuring all galleries are clean. But... who knows.

Two possibilities Randy and I came up with is 1) inadequate break-in, and 2) too much valve spring pressure. I had ordered the "302" springs with dampers from Classic Inlines, but they sent the hell-for-bent compound springs, the strongest springs they sell... so we used 'em.

[Nathan289]

Im thinking it was your springs..

And damage to the rocker assembly?
Any wear on other lifters?
How are the valve stems or the valve seats? High spring pressure should have hammered the valves.

[Luva65wagon]

One broke rocker early on and now this? I say valve springs and probably break-in issues since it was not a sure-fire start-up and break-in. Unless you're going to race this you don't have to worry about ultra heavy springs. Time to regroup and think about this with intended use and learning from what's happened so far.

[MacDee]

One broke rocker early on and now this? I say valve springs and probably break-in issues since it was not a sure-fire start-up and break-in. Unless you're going to race this you don't have to worry about ultra heavy springs. Time to regroup and think about this with intended use and learning from what's happened so far.

Yeah. It was actually a broken push rod, but I'd bet money that whatever might be wrong with the valve train contributed to it!

I have a theory... It's WAY off-the-wall... and makes assumptions I cannot justify... but it would explain a LOT:

Could it be possible the valve springs were "overpowering" the lifters?
Let's assume (the first ridiculous assumption)... the springs were causing significant leak-down during the period the lifter is on the lobe; then assume (the second ridiculous assumption)... the lifter didn't have enough time to refill during the period it is on the base circle. IF SO... I would get NOISY LIFTERS no matter how I tried to adjust them, or how many times I re-adjusted them (exactly what I have experienced), and the lifters would be getting HAMMERED on every revolution.

Considering its intended use... the new build will be using a much more conservative cam, and softer valve springs.

[Nathan289]

May I suggest a comp cam h256?
Use new stock springs with shims if needed.

10w-30 vr1 racing oil is good.
Lucas has break in oil that is good and not too expensive.

[MacDee]

The trashed cam was a Clay Smith 274-112. The new cam is a 264-110.
I have turned the build over to a True Professional. I seem to have more money than sense, so the only sensible thing to do is to pay a True Professional to do the sensible thing, right? Springs have not been selected yet, but I'm sure Randy [and I?] will do the sensible thing!