63 Futura 'Vert, It Begins With Many Questions

[dhbfaster]

(Ignore the question marks…not sure why my iPad keeps doing that.)
Sorry to hear that Matt. I do think most people can easily spend much more than they originally thought in both time and money and it can easily add up. I just looked at mine kind of like a car payment with some spikes in it, but at times it was painful. I probably couldn?t have done it if I had other car payments at the time. And, having a place to work on it is definitely key.
I had an internet business on the side once.it was a grand idea, but bottom line was that I was spending a lot every month as well as time late into the night every day and ultimately found that to really make I would have had to put everything at risk, and in the end I called it quits. It still hurts to think about it, but it was the right decision.
On the other hand, when I first started my car and really started to get into it like you have, I went through a lot and had a lot of frustrations. One thing Jeff said to me one time really stuck. There are no real deadlines in this? (or something like that) He was right. I started to slow down a bit and enjoy the process more and spread out the spending a bit more and eliminated the frustration.
I also couldn?t have done what I did without this club. I had so much help. One day with a few people from the club helping got more done than I could in six months by myself, and that happened several times. Don’t underestimate that part. My car was also my grandfathers and I had a history with it. If I didn?t, I don’t think I would have finished.

[Millennial Falcon]

Well this is embarrassing. Time to give an update on the project I quit on.

Spent many days rereading the inline six book by Cox and Mauer, poring over the old info posts by Classic Inlines, and using online calculators of various kinds. I've gone deep into the weeds with every forum post related to my endeavors and come away far more knowledgeable. I've shopped for and located all the things I hadn't thought of before. I feel ready, but my trigger finger keeps shaking anyway.

The 170 will be replaced with a rebuilt 200 and C4 from a 68 mustang using an '80 200 large log head, all three already in hand and on stand. The head will be milled to get the combustion chambers to 52cc after I match the chambers and clean up the ports and casting as much as possible. All of this hinges on a good magnaflux that I should have done soon.

I have plans to add oversized exhaust valves to the list if I can find the 144ci intake valves. I haven't been looking long, so hopefully they show up soon.

Cam will be the Clay Smith 256/256 110 coupled with the stock 1:1.52 rocker arms. This should be a nice low rpm power band and comfortable ride on the highway with a 2.89 thereabouts rear end. You can’t have everything with your set up and that’s as close as I can come to making it a reasonably good driver and just a touch fun.

Block will be magnafluxed also, but less worried about that one. If it passes and isn't bored over 0.060" already I should be good to go for the zero decking, balancing, new flat top pistons, and ARP fasteners.

I have a gold Holley Sniper 1100 unit with the matching hyperspark distributor, (blue finish, if you care) ignition box, and fuel tank with pump ready to go.

I plan to buy the double timing chain assembly from V.I. Even though the things I read about it make me nervous. Hoping I can make it work.

I am also buying the Scott Drake dual outlet header and hoping the RobbMc 3001 mini starter can allow a good fit if it causes trouble. It should be an enlightening experience. Install with stage 8 locking bolts planned.

I will use the Champion EC251-6 aluminum radiator with a recovery tank. Seems like a good solution for avoiding an electric fan and improving cooling. This will be coupled with a high flow water pump.

Because I am still only human I picked out a few goodies like billet thermostat housing, billet water pump pulley, a polished Powermaster retro 1G 75 amp alternator, and a mustang Sprint 200 air cleaner remake. The engine will be finished in the correct Ford blue with the original valve cover in blue also and the raised lettering stenciled in gold. I'm trying to come up with another hit of gold but I just can't decide. Anyone else with a flair for the sorta flashy?

I tell myself I am waiting to pull the trigger when the head passes magnaflux. Fingers crossed!

[Luva65wagon]

Sounds like it should be a good build. Built a very similar setup last year for and with Jeff for his wagon. He managed to find probably the last, or so it seems, 8" 4-lug rear end and we put that in along with him upgrading to 14" wheels and tires. We had a bit of fun along the way with all the issues I found others had done or things I found wasn't quite right along the way. He went with a Weber 2-barrel instead of fuel injection, which wasn't without a hurdle or three. There were many unexpected and often unprofessional issues we dealt with, so hope you have better luck. He's happy with it, so that's really all that matters.

So, are you building the motor or is someone else building it to your specs?

[Millennial Falcon]

So, are you building the motor or is someone else building it to your specs?

I am pretty hung up on this point. I don't feel it's a good idea to try transporting a full crankshaft assembly around in some pointless effort to save a few bucks.
I intended to do a complete tear down myself. But this idea does concern me, as I might not catch something that the machine shop would and the cam bearings sound like a bear of a task.

I think I know the answer is let the machine shop do the entire short block. I'm just reluctant because I know cost creep will ruin most of my plans.

if anyone has recommendations I would gladly take them.

My father in-law knows 'a guy' to do the head. That so far has been my best lead. My father in-law is also a boisterous man with a tendency to be relentless with arguing opinions. He simply does not acknowledge my plans and my choices already made. At this point I have spent 3 years going over all my options and I know for sure what I want now.

I am sorry for rambling about this, I just feel very alone on this journey. This a wedding cake with no recipe and one shot to get it right. All the bakers before me left bread crumbs but no instructions. Every cake will be just a little bit different. Some will be edible, some not. What will mine be?
I have to admit I am terrified of what comes out of that oven, it scares the crap out of me. I'm just a worrier doing my best.

[Luva65wagon]

Knowing how to do a thing and doing it is usually limited by the cost of the tool to do it. I can do all the things, having done them in a past life, but have no tools to do certain things, so I defer them to those who do.

I have used the same machine shop for over 40 years. The same guy has been there most of them. Even still, I trust myself more than anyone, so when we took this 200 with the 250 head in, and it took months to get it done because we were that far deep in the queue, I scrutinized everything. I found things. Not all related to them, but just, I think, the nature of the beast anymore.

Initially, there was some good things. They found the core plug holes were slightly corroded, so a couple of them were different sizes than the others. So that was interesting, but good on them to address (note the color of them, which was my first clue).

2022-06-14 18.05.09.jpg

The next thing I discovered was nobody is supplying formed rubber rear-main seals and the gasket set Jeff bought only had the rope seal, which required the pins to keep them from rotating. We since found seals being made (not by FelPro) for about $50 each, I took a V8 seal and used the main cap to determine the length and cut them to length. Worked fine.

2022-05-31 17.32.52.jpg

I also discovered the machine shop did something not so good. The heads and block were both machined and decked and shaved as needed (250 heads have way larger volume area), when I started eyeing the work, they used some wonky valve spring caps. When I called them on it, he was beside himself apologetic, and made it right, but what if I hadn't noticed and it sucked a valve because of this? The valve spring was almost 1/4" larger than the cap!?

2021-11-07 18.32.11.jpg

He had to do a lot of hunting, but finally found the correct caps.

2021-11-12 16.26.12.jpg

So were making headway. I get things going together and install the cam and find true TDC to degree the cam... and there is no way using a stock cam gear set I can come close the what Clay Smith wanted us to use. Had to buy a special cam gear set where I could change the rotation of the crank gear 4 degrees and offset one tooth on the cam gear to get the thing set. Had I set dot-to-dot, it would have been 17 degrees out. Nobody took claim where that could have come from. Clay Smith said "Not us" and I didn't call Clowes or couldn't call Ford. But the degree wheel doesn't lie. My first proof of the importance of this step.

2022-06-01 12.57.07.jpg 2022-06-02 15.31.10.jpg

(Sorry the pics are sideways. Blaming the forum for that)

Then we discovered a shim washer gone MIA, so that sent us searching all over. Found it, but don't lose it.

2022-06-04 16.17.41.jpg

It's the one behind the cam key pin. Without this washer, the cam gear will lock-up solid.

2022-06-03 11.29.12.jpg

This is just the start of the build. Had I been a novice, this build would have gone south quickly. So, just putting these things out as examples of the things you might run into. There was more, but it's late. I may share more.

One thing... you mentioned needing flat top pistons, which you will with this combo. 2.3L Ford pistons are exactly the correct diameter, pin location and size. But are flat top.

[Jeff W]

I’ll add my bits to Roger’s list

1) I am the one the lost the spacer during the tear down. Shocked since I had to tear down two engines to find one usable block… somehow I lost both) ��

2) The 2.3L pistons are only sold in set of 4. Try to get both sets from the same production run for weight consistency.

3) End result, thanks to Roger and Moore Power Engineering (MPE), is smooth and wonderful!

[Millennial Falcon]

Roger and Jeff, thank you for sharing with me. Even the small stories and bits of info go a long way.

Also, I’m sure I am being a bit too dramatic. Everyone I work with has found it pretty funny watching me fret over every detail, and pretty annoying when all I talk about is engines. I have been a mechanic and outside machinist for 18 years now.

I was my shops lead low pressure steam valve mechanic and later became the shop expert on low and high pressure valve tooling. I got there by being constantly unsure that I knew everything and promptly diving back into drawings and manuals to satisfy my lingering doubts before I could ever turn a wrench.

I’m almost ready, just a little more studying and I should have my final numbers for the build on the engine and I will share them here. Also, I have a solution for my rear end that is both satisfying and more than I wanted to pay. But dang it if it’s not just really satisfying.