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Dual Master Cylinder Conversion
I have a 1963 Falcon and want to replace my single reservoir brake master cylinder with a dual reservoir cylinder and am following this set of instructions:
http://www.cometeastcarclub.org/PDFs/Conversion_of_SingleBowl_to_Duel_BowlMasterCylinde r.pdf
I went to NAPA after work and picked up the items on the list in the instructions, but after looking at the parts at home, nothing matches.
I bought a 1967 Ford Mustang Master Cylinder and two 8" x 3/16" brake lines. The holes on the master cylinder are 1/2" diameter and too big for the brake line fittings. Which is incorrect, the brake lines or the master cylinder?
Attachment 3441
The master cylinder holes have nipples,
Attachment 3440
... and the 3/6" holes on the tee fitting for the taillight switch have tapered cone-shaped bottoms that the brake lines do not want to tighten against. Should the tee adapters have nipple fittings like the master cylinder?
Attachment 3442
The other tee is straight though and has nothing for the brake line seats to push against. The brake lines say 3/16" x 8", but they also say JAPANESE. The tips of the brake lines are flat. Is that correct, or should they be conical?
Attachment 3443
3100 miles? A piece of cake.
Hello, Gene.
I really do have visions of hopping in this little car and just driving for a couple of weeks. When I got out of the Navy in 1983, I drove my 1977 Dodge Colt from Norfolk, VA, to Montreal Canada and then down to Orlando. I saw Mammoth Caverns in KY, camped on a mountain top in VT, and saw Niagara Falls. I'd love to do it again, but this time head out west while driving my Falcon. North Texas, the Great Plains, the Rockies, the High Sierras. My little Falcon powering up Pikes Peak. Mount St. Helens. To see giant Red Woods. Oooooh, that would be nice.
Back to the brake line fittings. Should I wrap all the threads with Teflon tape? I didn't see that mentioned anywhere.
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A picture is worth 1000 words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeff W
Did you get different T fittings than the guys you described? I'm still not clear on the adapter to T connections. Although if may feel like NPT and straight threads screw together... it is not correct.
Wikipedia says: "National Pipe Thread Taper (NPT) is a U.S. standard for tapered threads used on threaded pipes and fittings. In contrast to straight threads that are found on a bolt, a taper thread will pull tight and therefore make a fluid-tight seal."
Hello, Jeff.
Due to parts availability, I used two different-sized adapters for the master cylinder outlets with male NPT threads and flaired female threads. The fitting on the left goes from a 1/2" hole to a 1/4" brake line. The one on the right goes from a 7/16" hole to a 3/16" brake line.
Attachment 3449
Tee #1 was complicated because it joins two different sized brake lines and the brake-light switch. Tee #1 seems to have three female NPT inlets. The brake-light switch and the two flaired adapters feel like they are screwing in correctly.
Attachment 3448
Here is a side view of the complicated Tee #1. You can see the flaired fitting on the inside of Tee #2 in the background.
Attachment 3450
Pipe dopes - no pun intended
Noticed the earlier image showing the nut hard-up against the M/C and was going to (prematurely) comment, but decided to read through all the rest. You seem to have it all figured out using the correct adapter fittings.
Having now done about a dozen of these conversions it's so much easier to do than it is to explain. I/we should really do a full-fledged PDF of this step-by-step with detailed pics. The original PDF posted is good, but leaves out a couple important details, like these fittings for one - or the use of 3/16 brake like (which normally comes with the 3/8-24 threads), but adapting them to the two larger nuts. Or options to negate the pressure switch. Real soon now.
And, now, just to clarify fittings and their use... pipe threads are tapered. The teflon or "sealant" are not supposed to act as the seal. The taper provides this. The issue is keeping friction low so you can force the two threads together until they self-seal before they gall (the melting, of sorts, of similar materials by heat or friction). On some materials, like stainless, these similar materials will gall very quickly without a sealant with Teflon, and in some cases still will to some degree. So the use of a Loctite-based Teflon sealer will cure and harden in the absence of air and minimize leaks. Usually the use of sealant, as a sealant, is deemed necessary when the male and female parts have worn or expanded beyond their wear limit - with mixed results.
Teflon tape, if used, needs to begin up about one thread from the end of the male threaded end to keep it out of the system. But great care needs to be given if Teflon tape has been used before. Every strand of it needs to be removed, since even though it is used correctly the first time, the second use of the threaded parts will work these strands forward and inward - towards the flow of fluid - and into the working bits.
Inverted flares need no sealant, as Kenny indicated. The flare (male against female) cause the seal. One issue I have seen when using these large nuts but with 3/16" line size is that the male part (like that inside the M/C) is assuming the larger tubing flare, not the 3/16" size flare. I had one install where I could not get a good seal. So - just putting this out there that it "may be" better to use the adapter fittings as opposed to the large nuts with 3/16" holes. Depends on the machining of the flare inside the M/C.
Since flare fittings don't expand with use, like pipe-thread fittings do, they are a positive seal every time you loosen and tighten them.
So that's all I got to say about that. Happy braking!
;)
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Fred Flintstone just used his feet.
Hello, Roger.
You talked about lubricating pipe threads. Would dipping the brake switch threads in brake fluid work?
I made another revision yesterday. I went to NAPA and bought two "Brake Fit Tube Nuts" (#641-3296 and #641-3322) for 69 cents each and then went to "Just Brakes" and had them attached.
Attachment 3461
The mechanic used a tube cutter to cut the ends off the brake lines. He re-flared the lines with a "bubble flare" and said that this was the flare that my 8-inch brake lines had come with. I made a brief look at the internet about the subject and saw the comment: "Automotive brake lines are always a 45 degree double flare or a DIN (bubble) flare." Here are my bubble flares:
Attachment 3462
Here is an internet photo comparing the bubble and double flares. I need to read more about the difference between the two:
Attachment 3464
Here are what they look like attached. This eliminated two adapters. If the custom flare fittings leak, I can always get a couple of new brake lines and try the adapters.
Attachment 3463
Dual Master Cylinder Conversion
If you decide to buy a double flaring set, I would advise you spend a few extra bucks and buy a good quality brand. Search the internet on what is the best for the buck. I bought a cheaper version and the flares were bad and leaked. Bought a better set and they work great. I agree with Kenny that it is a good purchase and the tubing cutter along with a decent tubing bender will get used again and again. Larry
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Dual reservoir conversion.
For several reasons, I wimped out and let my local Meineke shop install the dual master cylinder.
A 1967 master cylinder in a 1963 Falcon. Fifty years ago, this would have been "The Falcon of the Future, .... Today!" My Futura is now (or would have been) truly Futuristic! Notice the curly bends in the brake lines:
Attachment 3501
Lines off dual cylinder:
Attachment 3502
Meineke said that they ran into a problem (without problems things would be too easy). The existing brake lines were not fitting correctly because the nuts were rounded and the flares were old. When they trimmed the ends to add new flares and nuts, the lines were not long enough. They used a pair of flared adapters to graft new lengths of brake line onto the existing lines. See the brass-colored fitting on the right front brake line in the picture:
Attachment 3505
Here is a close up of that fitting:
Attachment 3504
They also added a coupling to the brake line going to the rear:
Attachment 3503
My engine and engine compartment are all dusty from the car being sanded while it was at the paint shop. I will wash them with a wet sponge this weekend and try to clean them up.
I future while I'm at it job
I for one can not over stress the need to have good, trustworthy brakes, so this is a good first step. I would have though, had I had what they had at their disposal (a rack), run a new line all the way to the back and to the passenger wheel. We're talking less that 15' of line. Extra joints I'm not a fan of. These steel lines after 50 years are sure to be less than pretty internally and externally, since brake fluid is both corrosive and collects moisture. Anyway, something to consider. I did both my wagon and Ranchero - just because. Watch them closely. If you see any seepage, buy a coil of 3/16" brake line(in bulk) and have these replaced.
Or drive it up here and we'll make it a tech day! :banana:
:rain: